OT: eggs going cheap in Sainburys !

[alan_m]

A lot of smoked products have never seen smoke. These days its just sprayed with a smoke flavour liquid.

[Tim Lamb]

In message , T i m writes

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I don't think you ever responded to the query * Is it better from the food animal's perspective, to have lived*?

[Andrew]

+1

[T i m]

That's good then, as long as said liquid doesn't carry the same or other risks.

And don't get me wrong, I like / prefer the taste of smoked food, until my stepdaughter died of cancer.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Most people when asked 'how to make sprouts more palatable to me' answer by trying to disguise the taste somehow.

Apparently, some people are 'super tasters' and some things, like Brassicas and sweeteners taste different / stronger than to most people. I am such.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

I think you might need to check what Vegan food is. ;-)

"100g soft unsalted butter, plus extra for greasing

3 medium eggs, lightly beaten"

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

I thought I did?

I think the answer would be 'no'. eg, If it didn't exist in the first place then 'you don't miss what you've never had'?

In contrast, if say an egg laying chicken would 'traditionally' last 6 years but are typically slaughtered at one, or a dairy cow being slaughtered at 5 years old, not the 20 years it might live if we didn't exploit it as much as we do, then it might be considered that the animal may not have been able to fulfil whatever plan they may have built in.

And they do have plans as we know from the various animals that return to their breeding / spawning grounds after many years.

The Mrs ... and others have asked if then 'cows and pigs would become extinct' ... and yes, but you might still see the few you see that are actually outdoors but you wouldn't miss the thousands and thousands in feed lots who never actually see any green fields or grass (other than from the lorry taking them to slaughter).

I think they are introducing things like wild boar and other animals that lived perfectly happily on their own before we came along to conservation areas as they go some way to returning the natural balance of such places.

Cheers, T i m

[alan_m]

Sorry I left the NOT out. I'm mainly aware of what vegans consider acceptable - the cooking chocolate may also have something unacceptable.

What I don't understand is how a vegan can differentiate between a field being manured with, say, cow shit and one that has been fertilised with a mined product. Surely the former is unacceptable for growing "vegan" crops and the later not suitable for saving the planet?

[T i m]

Doh! ;-)

Sure, but as there is vegan chocolate, I didn't mention that.

I think it comes down to when we start farming animals on a commercial scale.

If you think back to America when buffalo roamed the plains in large number (and we didn't go over there and wipe them out for 'fun'), they would typically roam as they grazed, sometimes moving over very long distances, spreading their fertiliser as they went. Hence it was pretty 'dilute' in any one place in the environment.

If you compare that with having thousands of beef standing on concrete feed lots and their waste being pumped into holding ponds / tanks before being disposed of ... or getting into the rivers and eventually the sea, the concentration of all that waste is *very* harmful to the environment.

Add that to the quantity of ozone destroying methane all these farmed animals produce (more damage to the ozone than Co2 apparently) and more than is produced by *all* forms of transport, you might see why 'overall', it *is* a big problem.

If you lived on a farm, kept *a few* cows, sheep, pigs, goats, sheep and chickens, you didn't have the same level of concentration of anything, unlike what we see today.

Unfortunately, good marketing has convinced us that 'meat is good' and better than veg (at say diving us protein) and we are now consuming it in large quantities, much much more than our parents would have consumed because it wasn't farmed so commercially then and so was more expensive.

But most of it is down to marketing, like telling us you *need* to drink milk to get your calcium:

Cheers, T i m

'You aren't lactose intolerant, you just aren't a baby cow'. ;-)

[Tim Lamb]

In message , T i m writes

Yes. You said that. I am criticising your limited consideration. Farmed animals, in appropriate management are *happy*.

Is 12 months of happy existence worth nothing?

I think instinct rather than forward thinking. Lemmings?

OK. I am not an advocate of factory farming.

Urban foxes? Protected Badgers. When was the last time you saw a road flattened Hedgehog?

[Max Demian]

How about smoky bacon flavour crisps (which are vegan)?

[T i m]

As long as the smoky flavouring isn't detrimental to our health (over and above the crisps themselves etc), then that's fine? Just as it would be if they were hedgehog, cat, dog or human flavoured. ;-)

eg, It's just a 'flavouring' and something that is often open to interpretation in any case.

Cheers, T i m

[spuorgelgoog]

Mmm, baby cow.

I now want Cotoletta alla Milanese for dinner tonight.

You're not baby cow intolerant, you just aren't a hyena ;-)

Owain

[RJH]

Found it all quite persuasive at the time - but on checking it's not the whole story - as you'd expect, of course.

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Pre lockdown we would often pick up a batch when we saw it at

Aldi has it in separate boxes - but supply has been patchy recently

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They're just a bit chewy and tasteless compared to the originals, I find (cooked in microwave, or added to curry etc)

Yes, go with that - they're not *that* bad, and I'm avoiding unnecessary trips, so saves having to get fresh veg. Hippy and the Asian/Turkish and a couple of specialist grocer shops best for veg IMO - supermarket stuff generally rubbish.

snip

That might have been me? Yes, I do that - just can't beat the heavily processed taste of a decent cheap French Fry :-)

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[T i m]

Joking aside for a second, would you be happy to kill a veal calf yourself and watch it butchered (assuming you aren't trained in such yourself)?

If yes, do you feel anything for the animal, or is it only ever just 'meat' to you? Where would you draw the line (if you would at all), if you would eat a lamb then what about a dog? If a chicken, what about a parrot etc (assuming they were similar eating)?

What about having to kill broiler hens sooner than you might because their bodies grow too heavy for their legs, causing them to break? Are you comfortable with that (genuine question)?

Except whilst a hyena may not dispatch a baby cow as quickly as a slaughterhouse is supposed to, they are likely to only kill one that was otherwise living a 'natural' life, not keep thousands penned up on concrete for the whole of their short and chemically loaded 'lives'.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. When a meat eater I used to regularly tease my long term vegetarian niece eater with 'Yum, baby animal' stuff, whilst at the same time being aware that I was living a double standard and in a form of denial. From a child I have always looked after animals (rescued / healed injured ones etc) and so to have someone kill them for me to eat was the issue. That weight is now off my shoulders. ;-)

[T i m]

Quite ... and thanks for the feedback.

Oh. I was sure when we went there last, some at least shared the same box. Like they often do with 3 types of something similar that are all the same price (even tools). ;-)

Maybe demand is up and people want to get what they want easier?

Hmm, ok, thanks.

Quite. ;-)

Funny, I was talking to daughter (who has been doing our shopping) and we were possibly noticing that some shops are better than others for fresh produce. Hence why the frozen again. ;-)

It could well have done. The Mrs loved them particularly as she likes a 'chunky chip'. ;-)

And that's the thing with many foodstuffs we are addicted to now. ;-(

Plain / healthy often aren't as 'tasty / exciting' as the heavily processed, salt and sugar laden stuff.

Thinking back, step granddaughter (then 15) was desperately trying to provide her mum with very healthy food when she was first diagnosed with cancer, in the hope that it might just give her more of a fighting chance. She did lots of research and (bless her) even 'hid' 'super foods' in what looked like more conventional dinners because she knew her Mum might not want to eat them if she knew (she was a bit fussy that way).

When it was obvious that it wasn't going to help, she went back to just giving her whatever she fancied ... as long as she ate something.

Step daughter loved her processed meats, and smoked, died of bowel (primary) liver and lung cancer. She actually died because her liver became 4 times it's normal size and crushed her to death from the inside. ;-(

I feel lucky to have made 63 on not a *very* good diet and should try to be here for as long as possible to try to support our daughter in her new role of impromptu 'mum'.

If we can do so without polluting the environment we all live in (any more than necessary) and not causing any unnecessary pain and suffering to animals at the same time, then why not? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

For once you are right!

Cheers, T i m

[Andrew]

They're down to 20p now. Big pile of cartons.

Don't the British like the Italians any longer, or are people fed up with home baking ?.

Lots of vegan foods reduced for quick sale today. Maybe the locals prefer real food ?.

Andrew

[Max Demian]

Would you attempt to mend a car or TV (assuming you aren't trained in such yourself)?

[T i m]

No [1], but I was simply clarifying the position that he (was or) wasn't qualified?

Do you know if he is then?

The question wasn't directly his qualifications in doing something but his willingness to do something, assuming he was (which would be highly likely if he was etc).

Cheers, T i m

[1] Yes, I have built a (kit)car and repaired several TV's but not trained in either (specifically).