OT: Coldest UK temperature for ten years....

[The Natural Philosopher]

No, but at the moment its windy, and while that makes it feel bitterly cold, it throws in 10GW or so.

and we haven't closed all the coal yet.

The most telling thing however is the mothballing of CCGT capacity

Why did perfectly good fuel efficient generating capacity go bankrupt?

Because of renewable energy. CCGT kit is a bit more expensive to build and maintain. If you are only needed a little bit in winter because renewables at three times the price are pushed to the front of the queue, you can't make money.

So you shut down and build OCGT instead. Uses twice the fuel but its cheap to build and maintain.

So overall you end up with more emissions because of renewable energy.

[The Natural Philosopher]

No, that isn't the danger.

Iceland has a low population and active volcanoes.

geothermal simply doesn't work here.

I think the pipes from Battersea power station to all those council flats still exist...that was free energy...

But the greens have ensured that London has no power stations left. Not even waste burners.

[Andy Burns]

Still supplying district heat

[The Natural Philosopher]

way too sensible. lets hope the Greens don't hear of it

[Chris Hogg]

90% of Iceland's geothermal heat is used for domestic heating directly. About 75% of their electricity is hydroelectric, only 25% geothermal. There was a big increase in demand and output of hydro about fifteen years ago with the introduction of a new aluminium smelter. I believe bit-coin mining also consumes a large amount. They have a geothermal electricity generating capacity of about 0.6GW (about one fifth that of Hinkley C). The idea that they have masses of geothermal electricity just waiting to be exported via what would have to be record lengths of submarine interconnects is much exaggerated.

[Max Demian]

If the suppliers can turn it off, they'll charge for it.

[Vir Campestris]

That link was dead. Spot the difference:

Andy

[newshound]

ISTR when they lost Battersea PS they put in oil fired boilers. I'm guessing their current CHP engines are diesels rather than gas. Is it all hidden inside that thermal store tower in Churchill Gardens? Presumably it is listed.

[Jimmy Stewart ...]

minus 6c here last night...bloody Baltic ! ...

[jon]

It is -0.6C here with the sun out.

[Dave Plowman (News]

Good to see Turnip still takes 'global warming' as only referring to his back garden. The original Little Englander.

[Brian Gaff (Sofa]

That was in Scotland was it? A lot of course is made worse by the wind chill effect, so it could feel like -30. Certainly here if I move the sensor to a windy spot a couple of years ago although it was only -5, it read -12. People forget how dangerous a wind can be when its cold. Remember that old black and white Open University program where this poor young lady was drenched clothed then put in a glass topped box with air that was only moderately cold until she was visibly shivering with an in ear thermometer until it dropped just half a degree then they had to get her out and wrap her in a silver blanket. It certainly got the message over about going out unprepared for the weather. Brrr. Brian

[Jethro_uk]

Did it ? Given the tiresomely regular stories about people having to be rescued from mountains with f*ck all preparation, I'd suggest it didn't.

The old CIA manual for the British Isles noted that almost all habitation is below 300m and that above that weather conditions can change so as to threaten life.

[mm0fmf]

Funny papers and new websites are full of stories about the cold, Beast from East II, coldest winter for a decade etc.

Both lefty and righty sites.

[Another John]

Correct me if I'm wrong (as I'm sure you will), but I have always thought that the main, and worst, effect of global warming (which is a fact[1]) is nothing to do with newspaper headline-grabbing high temperatures[2] (or indeed low ones), but the fact that a couple of degrees in *average*, *global* temperatures causes wildly unpredictable weather patterns.

Which is what causes Beasts from the East, forest fires, floods, melting ice caps etc., and consequent disaster.

John

[1] Yes, it's clearly a fact. And Yes, unstable weather during a particular century of human existence is a grain of sand in the history of the Earth and its climate. so we shouldn't get so hot and bothered (no irony intended). But if mankind can do something about that, let him try to do so. [2] I'm sure you know this too, TNP, and I'm always surprised to see you using the "logic" of the pig-ignorant journalists, who may know, but certainly do not care, that "global warming" doesn't actually mean growing dates in your back garden in Aberdeen, but rather, means the instability that may bring you a heat wave in March, and months-long downpours with dirty grey skies, throughout summer.

[Tim Streater]

I think the salient point here is that all of these things have happened before, and certainly within living memory. You, and others, appear to imagine that the temperate winters we had in the 90s or so mean that without climate change we'd have had them ad inifinitum? Forgotten the 1963 winter freeze already? Snow on boxing day and below-zero temps from then until mid-March? Forgotten 2013 already, when the temperature stayed around zero all through March and April? Floods, you say? Forgotten the great winter freeze and flood in East Anglia on 1947? Forgotten the Linton/Lymouth flood disaster of 1952 or so?

[The Natural Philosopher]

I was merely using their logic to show that in one case they reported it, and in another they didn't

I am surprised that you thought my post was about 'global warming' when it was clearly an ironic comment on journalism bias .

well in fact it does. Or at least grapes in Scandinavia and barley in Greenland as happened in the MWP

Well no it doesn't mean that at all.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Indeed. Arguably weather is getting less extreme, if anything. And really it was warmer in the 1930s than it is now, except in airports and cities, where they have stuck the thermometers

The interesting thing is that remote thermometers that haven't been changed in 60 years stuck out well away from civilization show no warming at all....

[Andy Burns]

Spot what matters:

[Chris Hogg]

On Wed, 10 Feb 2021 22:10:15 +0000, Another John [e-mail] wrote: <snipped>

'Global Warming' was the term introduced in the 1990's, to describe the increase in global temperatures that started in the 1970's. But then came 'the pause' in about 2000, and the underlying global temperature stopped rising as fast, so climatologists changed the phrase to 'Climate Change', in a truly Orwellian move (all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others).

Since then, in efforts to spread alarmism and keep the world 'on message' that rising levels of CO2 are going to be disastrous, every gale, every forest fire, every monsoon, has been linked to Climate Change, even though most of them are simply 'weather', and have occurred before in either the recent or distant past, so cannot be attributed to CO2 or rising global temperatures.

Why is it, for example, that winter storms are now given names, that subtly link them to the naming of hurricanes? They never used to be. We were told that polar bears were in danger due to lack of sea ice on which to forage due to climate change; polar bears are doing very well thank you. We were told that walruses hurled themselves over cliffs as a consequence of climate change; it's since been shown that this was simply a lie and they were chased by polar bears, a not uncommon occurrence. Detailed analysis of the recent rate of sea level rise has shown it to be not significantly different from the rate of rise in the past, despite alarmist claims. And so it goes on...