At over 300 quid I would hope it would!
We have had a Kenwood mixed for *years* and I think it's the thing under a plastic cover on the kitchen worktop. I don't remember it having a paddle thing and I believe that's what it needs (along with the torque to work it) for kneading dough.
Cheers, T i m
I'm pretty good at reading measuring jugs and believe I was pretty close to the mark. ;-)
Yup, they are the quantities.
Ok. Apart from when I didn't have any 'spare' flour for dusting the kneading surface, I found it pretty easy to do, but then I'm a reasonably big chap. ;-)
The instructions on this 'Wright's Farmhouse Wholemeal Bread Mix' said to 'knead and stretch for 2 minutes and I know I did it for that because I set the kitchen timer.
All it says is 'Wholewheat flour, 91%.'
OK.
No machine yet, but when allowing it to prove I 'lightly' covered it with cling film, as per the instructions.
With this kit, after mixing a kneading you put it in the tins, cover and allow to prove for '30-40' minutes .. 'until it has roughly doubled in size', and this time it had. Previously I only kneaded it once but someone suggested I knocked it back after proving and let it prove again, (which is what I did this time with a very similar result).
In this case, I first left it 30 mins, then a further 30 in 10's whilst judging if it had finished rising etc.
No glass in ours and I didn't open the door to see but when I did (20 mins) they had sunk 50%.
Wholemeal bread recipe (makes 1 loaf or 10 rolls)
All you need is:
500g Wright's bread mix and 340ml of lukewarm water.Hand baking
For machine baking it just gives you 3 sizes (4/6/800g) and proportional water and on rapid or 3 hours etc.
Cheers, T i m
I had Panasonic ZB250 - excellent, and well reviewed. It's since gone to an ex-partner, and i replaced it with an Aldi/Lidl clone at about 1/3rd the price. Seems just as good, but whether it'll last as long . . .
FWIW, sieve the flour and mix the dry ingredients before chucking on top of the water, keep the yeast and salt apart for as long as possible, and use olive or rapeseed oil instead of butter. Works for me anyway.
Yes - we don't get out much nowadays - not that we did before, come to that!
Not usually a problem at all
Bread rolls require manual intervention... loaves are just 'measue it all in & press 'go'
Probably..
I was being ironic. No shortage of jobs on the list here either..... far too busy to get involved with 'manual' bread-making..
>
Ah.
;-)
No ... and I get the drift ... it's just we are at different points on this journey.
For me it's a matter of deciding what is the best way for us (technique, make / model, availability, money, space, need, RW convenience) and then weighing that all up against just buying a wholemeal loaf from Sainsbury's ... when you can easily.
You already have all that covered. ;-)
However, if getting the right flour (and other essential ingredients) to put in out mixer / breadmaker, (if we can get one) is more difficult than getting bread, then whatever is the easiest is likely to win (and why many don't bother to make bread and even have the machine sitting in a cupboard). We don't necessarily have the 'desire' to make our own bread, for the same reason you don't want to make yours manually.
I was hoping this bread-mix might be a viable stop gap (provide the solution without the investment) and whilst it is, it's not quite there yet (but useable).
Cheers, T i m
Thanks for the feedback on the Panasonic Rob.
I guess that only matters if you rely on it / use it regularly? I have a feeling that even if we had one *and* it produced reliable results, I'm not sure we would use it routinely, once this pandemic is over (even if we could get a machine and the ingredients etc).
Ok, I'll ad that to my ever growing 'Bread making Tips' doc. ;-)
I'm pretty sure the bread maker we borrowed from a neighbour would still be available and likely not been used since we gave it back. So, it would just be a matter of getting the ingredients ...
Cheers, T i m
It's not really a problem. Mostly I find the paddle doesn't stay embedded in the loaf. On the rare occasion that it does, I use a chop-stick to prise it out. Simples.
And such bread is, of course, fresher than white sliced from the supermarket. But it doesn't stay so for as long.
Or you can buy a new paddle for IIRC £12. We had the 254 for 10 years until I think the gears wore out and the paddle barely turned, so we have a 2500 now.
The advantage of the Panasonic over other models we could easily find is that the pan is of much thicker metal, so bakes better.
Not seen either since before the war, in the supermarkets. However, SWMBO found some bread flour at the Goods Shed, next to Canterbury West Station, today. But no yeast.
Why there should be a shortage of these items is a mystery. At ASDA today, that was the only shelf not stocked as normal. A big gaping space.
I'd need more detail, but the phrase '_stays_ risen' sounds as though it was over-proofed, not over-kneaded. Generally, when my bread goes into the oven, it has a bit of what is called 'oven-spring' - it gets bigger, rather than 'not staying risen'. Also, it's not really the _time_ spent kneading that's important. If you knead slowly, by hand, it can take quite a long time. If you use a stand mixer, it can take much less time. With practice, you'll be able to recognise the right texture, which is what's important.
I prefer the taste of my home-baked bread, and I know exactly what goes into it. Flour takes up considerably less storage space than bread, and bread-making really doesn't take much effort, if you use a stand mixer - which of course can be used for other things, unlike a bread machine, which is a single-purpose appliance.
I'll let you know how it works out!
Since the mix will have included yeast, age and storage conditions may have affected it. No/too little yeast, results in no/too little rising. I store my yeast in a sealed container in the freezer. Other reasons can be using water which is too hot - yeast doesn't like that.
Oh, quite possibly. I was advised (by someone I thought should know) and because it didn't seem to rise in the oven on my first batch, to allow it to prove, then knock it back and then prove it again? Because there were no instructions for this on the packet, I just followed the general instructions again and waiting till it had risen to about twice the size.
That's what I was expecting. Imagine the top of the proven dough was level with the top of the baking tin, I expected it to expand up beyond that a bit to form the classic 'loaf' shape. When I took it out the oven is was back down to around half the height of the tin. ;-(
I did actually think that at the time, and the kneading action no doubt?
Understood.
Whilst that is 'good', it obviously comes at a cost. Like, I understand the 'ready-mixes' like I have been using come with quite a high level of salt, possibly a function of compromises of them being ready-mixed?
Understood (as Lee first mentioned I think). We do have a Kenwood mixer but I'm not sure if it ever came with the 'paddles' I think you need for kneading bread.
Please do, I might not be the only person here looking for available alternatives. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
No, it's not the paddle you need for kneading, it's the big hook-like thing. Called a dough hook. The Kenwood handles kneading very well, as does the KitchenAid.
Understood. <Just checked> Ah, the two batches I've done so far were 'Best before' 23 April 20 so only just 'in date'? The others I have are Oct 20 so I wonder if it (or some of it) was down to that?
Understood.
Didn't have the choice here as it was a pre-mix etc.
The instructions suggested 'luke warm' and so in both cases I used what was left in the kettle that was just warm to the touch.
I think I'll try to find out how you are supposed to knead bread by hand as that and the proving time (30-40 mins) and proving temperature (a warm place) are about the only thing that aren't precisely defined?
Cheers, T i m
Sorry had missed the point it was a packet mix. Either way, I think the yeast is not the issue as it doubled in size. Also if the yeast was only partly working it would just take longer to rise. Over proofing as suggested above could be the reason but losing all the air during cooking is odd. How long did it take to get to double the size? I got mixed up with your 2 attempts but in the one where it collapsed to half size in the oven did you bake it when it had doubled in size.
My money is still on it not being kneaded enough. Do you have another one to try and we could give tips at each stage to see if it is ready.
And indeed so does our Bosch mixer.
That's one I've never used. If the Kenwood or the KitchenAid conks out, I may consider one, though.
NP mate. ;-)
Ok.
Understood.
I was surprised TBH.
The first time I'm not sure it did quite and I probably only left it the maximum time they suggested, 40 minutes.
Yes, cling film off, straight into the pre-heated oven.
Ok ... and quite likely. They only suggest 2 minutes and I was kneading it constantly for at least that time. I typically used the palm of my hand to push it out and then folded that bit back in and did it again (insuring I was doing all of it, not just one bit).
Yes and as mentioned elsewhere, have a much longer 'Best by' date.
Cheers, T i m
Ah, sorry, certainly not seen one of them with our mixer either.
Makes sense. ;-)
<Another check> Ah ... I said I hadn't used it for years, it is a Kenwood but I think it'd just a 'Food Processor', not a mixer? ;-(But either way, I'm mot sure what more I can do re the 'mixing', especially by hand with a spoon and bowl, once it's gone from flour-mix and water to a big dough ball?
I mean, I've done plenty of mixing of ingredients / chemicals in my time and am generally very through. So, once the initial folding of the flour into the water is done, it's just a matter of making sure there are no wet bits or unused flour and a uniform colour and texture?
Any further 'mixing' (by hand anyway) would have to come from the kneading?
Cheers, T i m
Going back to the mixers, I think any of those stand type mixers will work. As mentioned I bought a cheapo one from Lidl and it is fine having used it for years now.
I guess it is difficult to figure out the previous loaf so thinking about the next one. I would assume the mix is largely flour, yeast, salt so treat it as a normal dough and forget about the instructions on the box.
Bake with Jack has a great YouTube channel. This video shows you the full process
- how the dough looks when it has been fully kneaded. Smooth (if your flour is wholemeal etc then more difficult to see) and has some strength to it. When you form the cloak if you push it gently with your floured finger it dimples and then has a spring back.
- the proofing and shaping and how the dough looks, the cloaking etc.
- after the shaping you can do the last bit in the tin and let it rise to double before baking.
If you take some photos / videos at each stage, if there is an issue maybe we can figure out what it is.
Enjoy.
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