OT: A QC's opinion of the chequers 'plan'

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Summary:

  • The Chequers proposals would involve the permanent continuation in the UK of all EU laws which relate to goods, their composition, their packaging, how they are tested etc etc in order to enable goods to cross the UK/EU border without controls. All goods manufactured in the UK for the UK domestic market, or imported from non-EU countries, would be permanently subject to these laws.
  • There would be a general obligation to alter these laws in future whenever the EU alters its own laws, with a mechanism for Parliament to block such changes which is probably theoretical rather than practical.
  • This would put the EU in a position to fashion its rules relating to goods so as to further the interests of continental producers against UK competitors, when we will have no right to vote on those rules.
  • The obligation to follow the EU rulebook for goods would gravely impair our ability to conduct an independent trade policy. In particular, it will prevent us from including Mutual Recognition Agreements for goods in trade treaties and this is likely to destroy the prospect of successfully achieving meaningful agreements with some of the prime candidates such as the USA and Australia.
  • The ECJ jurisdiction proposals would put us in the same position as Moldova, an applicant/supplicant state which is willing to accept binding ECJ rulings on the conformity of its laws with EU law as part of the preparations for its accession. Quite why this is thought to be a suitable model for a country which has left the EU and is the 5th largest economy in the world is unclear. The supremacy of the UK courts over laws in the UK would not be restored, contrary to the claim made in para 6(g) of the Chequers statement.
  • The new ?Facilitated Customs Arrangement? seeks to solve one of the problems of the NCP (collection of EU level tariffs with rebate system on goods destined for the UK market) by imposing on UK-destined goods the administrative burdens of a tracking system. This would (1) increase the likelihood of this system being found in breach of the national treatment principle in GATT Art.III, and (2) apparently extend yet further the timescale for implementation of this Heath Robinson system, locking the UK in the mean time into the EU?s common external tariff, preventing the electorate from benefiting from Brexit in time for the next General Election.
  • However, there is no indication at least from what has been made public that the FCA has solved or alleviated any of the other problems of the NCP proposal. It is not clear how the problem of rules of origin controls on UK manufactured goods imported into the EU will be addressed in the absence of customs controls on the UK/EU border, or how this issue can be solved in compliance with WTO rules.
  • These proposals will not be accepted by the EU since in their perception they amount to unacceptable ?cherry picking? of the ?benefits? of the single market. However the EU is unlikely to reject the UK?s position outright, but will instead keep the UK inside a ?lobster pot? where it negotiates rather than prepaing for no-deal. When the negotiation time runs down, the EU will then demand huge last minute concessions in return for not taking away the transition period.
  • These proposals therefore lead directly to a worst-of-all-worlds ?Black Hole? Brexit where the UK is stuck permanently as a vassal state in the EU?s legal and regulatory tar-pit, still has to obey EU laws and ECJ rulings across vast areas, cannot develop an effective international trade policy or adapt our economy to take advantage of the freedoms of Brexit, and has lost its vote and treaty veto rights as an EU Member State.

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Remoaners accuse brexiteers of 'not knowing what they voted for'

The truth content of that statement is indecidable.

But I, and other brexiteers, know damn well what we did NOT vote for, and that is it, right there.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher
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Undeniable? Indeterminable? Or Unknowable? Anyway, it is pretty much known that most wanted a 'kingdom' of some sort. An abstract construct driven by a range of motives, incapable of realisation. Like in a fairy tale.

I couldn't comment - I've nothing approaching the technical expertise. And if I had I wouldn't waste it trying to interpret what looked to me (from May's* speech) like a proposal that Barnier would kick into touch at frist glance. Although his '80% agreed' statement this morning is interesting . . .

  • post Johnson resignation white paper speech - she sounded much like somebody who knows exactly how this is going to play out.
Reply to
RJH

< snipped 70 lines of QC's opinion >

There was never any possibility of the EU agreeing to any of that in the first place.

That will be ?500 please.

I accept Paypal.

michael adams

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Reply to
michael adams

Indecidable.

Oh dear, Use of the construct 'it is pretty much known' implies that in fact its completely the opposite. Troll technique 147. Use constraucts that assert and are unchallengeable, but untrue. .

An abstract construct

No that is the EU, dear - a 'kingdom' of some sort. An abstract construct driven by a range of motives, incapable of realisation. Like in a fairy tale.

Mama Merkels Kindergarten where we all play Jeux sans frontieres, live in cardboard eco boxes, and do what the big boys and girls tell us.

And yet you do, endlessly.

Why wouldn't you?

Arent you the person who wants to know what brexit means?

Well here is a well written piece explaining exactly what THIS particular flavour of brexit means, and you put your fingers in your ears..

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

You can imagine you'll get a Ferrari if you like but, wake up. it wasn't on offer. The referendum wasn't run by the tooth fairy granting all wishes.

The referendum was only about this:

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

Reply to
pamela

I assume you voted. If so, you must have had some idea what "remain" meant, and what "leave" meant. Perhaps you could tell us what those ideas were.

Reply to
Tim Streater

It's strange that Brexiteers start quoting so-called experts but refuse to accept experts views they don't like.

This particular so-called expert is a lawyer who will do the bidding of anyone willing to pay his fees. I wonder if Aaron Banks commissioned him.

Reply to
pamela

It's simple.

"remain" = remain a member of the European Union "leave" = leave the European Union

Some voters thought they were voting for ?350 million per week but they were mistaken.

Others thought they were voting to prohibit the UK being a member of a free trade area or a customs union but they too were mistaken.

Some thought they were voting to deport all recent migrants and they too were mistaken.

Some thought they were voting to prevent the UK ever working closely with the EU and they again were mistaken.

Some thought the UK would walk away with no deal but they expected too much.

Others thought there wouldn't be a $40 billion severence payment but they didn't thnk it through.

And so on.

None of these were in the referendum.

Reply to
pamela

The ones who thought we will be teleported back to 1972 however, are likley to get their wish.

Reply to
Graham.

That's easy.

People who voted "remain" expected things to stay exactly the same as they are.

People who voted "leave" could no more predict what the possible consequences might be, than could anyone else. However it seems many saw it as a useful means of making a protest vote against successive governments pandering to multiculturalism, asylum seekers, refugees and immigrants generally. Something which had previously been denied them. For many of these people, the fact that leaving the EU might have dire economic consequences for the UK hardly figured at all. As many of them saw themselves (rightly or wrongly) as having nothing more to lose, as it was. The very fact that Brexit might impact much harder on the better-off, was simply seen as a bonus as far as they were concerned.

Unfortunately rather more of these people voted leave than was expected, even by the likes of Mince-Davis, Gove, or even Boris.

Which left them in rather a hole, in having to come up with "good" reasons for leaving in the first place. Which as is surely clear even to you by now, they have singularly failed to do.

michael adams

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Any more questions ?

michael adams

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Reply to
michael adams

How is it that whenever its a truly stupid bigoted and emotional remark, its made by a remoaner?

I conclude that these people are not in touch with reality: Their source of information on what poeole who voted brexit wanted is entirely fictional as handed down by the BBC, the Guardian and the project fear team.

I think its a fortunate thing that they are in a minority.

A majority who believe everything they are told without question is no longer fit to survive as a culture.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

[Snip]

Of course. Quote a well known Brexiteer and what do you expect? But thought you didn't agree with 'experts' on anything?

The logical conclusion from that article is we would be far better off going back to just being an EU member as before. Because as is usual with Brexiteers, they offer no feasible alternative plan that doesn't involve the country going down the pan.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

actually it was 1993 when we 'joined the EU' before that we were in the EEC , so those that want to leave the EU doesn't mean they want to leave the EE C too.

But then who can tell the difference between the EEC and the EU ?

Reply to
whisky-dave

whoosh x2. An impressive achievement.

Reply to
tabbypurr

In article , The Natural Philosopher writes

I'm not so sure the EU won't accept the chequers proposal. After all they wrote most of it.

Reply to
bert

Ah Brexit means Brexit

Only remainers

Really? Who thought that apart from remainers.

Only the closet racist remainers thought that.

Not even remainers thought that.

"Could" not "would".

There was no need for that. Apparently Davies did not want to accept the EUs sequence of negotiations but No 10 (I specifically do not say May) overruled him. Just what have we got in return?

All were in the referendum otherwise people couldn't have thought that was what they were voting for.

Reply to
bert

It's strange that Remoaners start quoting so-called experts but refuse to accept experts views they don't like. Actually on second thoughts it's not strange at all. It's their only hope.

Reply to
bert

The point though is this. In the end if what you propose is the end result we still just walk away as many want us to anyway, so why not give it a punt?

I actually despair of the worlds constant bickering over common sense regulations. As long as countries make stuff other countries cannot import trade generally will not happen, so to me we should really be lobbying for a world trade set of rules for all countries, not just Europe. Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

Just proves how often you are wrong. Of course you care at liberty to quote an alternative legal analysis if you can find one.

Well put remainers in charge of Brexit and it's not surprising that they deliberately screw up

Reply to
bert

Which says absolutely nothing about the custom union and so on.

Willing to bet there are some parts of what we refer to as the EU that even the most rabid Brexiteer want to keep.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

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