OT: A drop in the ocean?

I guessed as much Roger, similar with many of the trolls etc.

Agreed.

Quite, and exactly why I counter the likes of Fredxx and his constant lying re the suggestion that I'm against any 'stunning' when I'm actually against all of it ... and as you say, there is no reliable / guaranteed way of killing anything on such in industrial levels that could really be considered 'humane', ignoring the range of 'bad practice' that continues in the whole animal agriculture industry.

So the likes of him seem happy to continue supporting methods that we all agree aren't ever *actually* 'humane (making a mockery of the word).

And that all against the backdrop that it's all / only about the death and that's far from the case ... or the (negative) consequences to human health, world resources, global warming and pollution etc.

Talking of pollution, a pig produces around 7 times the quantity of waste than a human and given there nearly twice the number of livestock animals on the land than humans, *that* why I quoted it as a 'big problem'. As the inhabitants of California learned when much of it overflowed all the waste holding lagoons and into their houses, during the hurricane (ignoring the *thousands* of chickens and pigs that drowned, trapped in their barns). The farmers, didn't even have the decency to let them out to give them a fighting chance. ;-(

Probably didn't matter, they just claimed on their insurance ...

Farmer. 'I'd like to claim for 20,000 pigs that drowned trapped in their barns yesterday.' Ins Co. 'Oh, that's terrible, I'm so sorry' Farmer. 'Don't worry, I'm insured so will get the money and they were going to die anyway ...' ;-)

Cheers, T i m

not worth reading any more is it.

Unfortunately, the dairy, fish and egg industries are worse in many ways than the meat so I'm not sure that's help.

How much 'side catch' get's thrown overboard already dead?

I don't make up anything. Prove anything I have 'made up' (or STFU).

Ah, and so you have all the answers and I don't, is that what you are saying? What qualifications do you have on the subject then OOI?

The confusion is yours my friend. Here it's very easy and simple.

Fact. We don't need to eat animals and there is enough viable landmass for the current population (plus another 190M) to live on plant based foods. It really couldn't get much less complicated?

What, because *you* don't happen to agree with it? *You* think you have more information or understand it better? If you have / do then why don't you present it?

Like I said, it's not Twatter and the trolls will never stop being trolls and any others might just think about any of it as it comes up.

I *know* it's 'manly' to eat meat (why do many men only cook at a BBQ?), I don't expect everyone (or anyone) to suddenly stop eating meat or any animal products here because of anything I have said, but some *might* just question what they are doing and make some changes.

It doesn't have to be a literal equivalent mate, it's a conceptual thing to get the point across. And you ignore the overall message on just one point?

Like, a chicken doesn't make and lay eggs for us to eat (no matter what your Mum told you), they lay them to reproduce and would normally (in the wild) be fertilised by a cockerel that was part of their flock. They would then try to form a small clutch of eggs that they would sit on and hatch. They might also beak (and / or eat) any eggs they didn't like or want and so could recoup the protein and calcium.

There was a funny thing on the TV where an adult sent their kid into someone's front garden to steal their chickens eggs and the (only two) chickens pecked the kid and sent him running. I wonder why they protected the eggs and didn't just let the kid take them (and the point).

Cheers, T i m

Don't then!

I'm guessing you missed the whole Squeaker playing the 'big man' thing (poor old codger). ;-(

Again, it's all so literal, nothing conceptual for that left brainer (either)? ;-(

Cows eat grass, the grass is broken down by bacteria, the cows gain their protein from consuming the bacteria. No grass, no bacteria, no protein = hungry cow.

But all that fermentation is where the methane comes from. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

Fruit trees don?t produce fruit for use to eat.

Vegetables don?t grow for us to eat.

But you are perfectly happy to dig them up, tear them from the tree etc, and so ending their life cycle just to feed your face.

No different to someone eating an egg or chicken etc, unless you are a left brainer who refuses to see the big picture.

Of course they do, that's *THE WHOLE POINT* of most 'fruit', to be eaten, shat out and any seed to grow away from the shade of the parent tree. What the fruit tree didn't count on is that man invented the water closet and therefore, fewer seeds ended up where *nature* intended (apart from in your back garden of course, we know your dirty little secret).

Why do they grow OOI Brain?

As do twice the number of livestock than humans of course.

And we only eat fruit when they are ready to be eaten, so that *is* their life cycle complete. Unlike the chicken whose eggs you eat that's killed a short way though it's life because it's reproductive system has been exhausted. Or the 'lamb', 'veal' or 'piglet' that are specifically dragged away from their parents and murdered, just because you like eating children?

Your bizarre POV might stand a chance of flying if it wasn't 1) bollox, 2) bollox or 3) trolling bollox.

So, for you plan to have any value, the biggest impact we could have on saving the fruit and vegetables is get rid of all that livestock, that reduces the problem by 2/3rds. If we get rid of the humans (especially the idiots like you) we only reduce the impact on the fruit and veg by 1/3rd, all be it that the animals would be much happier, not being tortured and killed by the likes of you.

See above ... and you eat all of the farmed ones don't you Brain, well, till the hens are exhausted then you kill them in gratitude for all their hard work (that they neither asked for or deserved).

Apart from the above ... (where you show you still don't have a clue) fruit trees don't recognise another 100 fruit trees faces, or need to be killed 10 years into their 100 year lives because they are exhausted, or run away when you threaten them (because they don't experiences fear or pain).

Which is exactly why you don't 'Brain Ray'.

Have you been running the microwave with the door off again and it's fried your brain, Brain?

Cheers, T i m

You seem to be having an angry moment.

BTW, your knowledge of how seeds spread is terrible.

There are some which rely on birds/ animals consuming the fruit etc and excreting the seed elsewhere but far from all. Plus, of course, many things you eat the seeds etc are consumed/ cooked or otherwise rendered unsuitable for growing.

Try germinating a salted peanut or a mashed potato.

Then, being a left brainer, you can?t be expected to understand the wider world.

Not very good with moods and feelings are you Brain?

What, fruit seeds, you know, what we were talking about?

I know, I stated that.

Sorry, I forgot you would have needed them *all* spelled out? Left brainers are like that. ;-(

Of course, but what percentage of the 'wild fruit trees' would that be exactly? How many fruit trees / bushes do you have and how many do you leave completely to nature? [1]

Well done for finding a couple of examples where both meat eaters and vegans may impact the earth, assuming both weren't commercially farmed etc ... but equally try bringing a lump of animal flesh back to life, any flesh, from any animal, you know, the ones that the vegan's

Aww bless. You gave it the best go you could Brain so well done for trying (but still no cigar).

Cheers, T i m

maybe he's a left behind brainer.

Makes a change from the dog walking anecdotes.

You do know that Apple trees rarely produce fruit after 50 years, even if well cared for. One in a park is unlikely to be cared for as an Apple tree should.

Another of your stories shot down in flames.

What, every single one (given you are an expert on such things)?

Except (if my 90 year old Mum got it right), it was in her garden and then in other peoples gardens when there were the houses over there.

Or what if it was a child tree of the one my Mum knew, after all, that's the points of the apples falling off isn't it?

Pruning (thinning, topping, lifting, pollarding) trees is also part of the general care routine of the local councils and especially any trees of special note or status.

And that's the only thing you can take from that? Pathetic.

So, I repeat, how many fruit trees and bushes in your garden and do you leave all the fruit on them to nature?

Just how much of a hypocrite are you Brain?

Cheers, T i m

Yeah, if that's what it takes to *not* want to interfere with animals.

Being a vegetarian (unless a stepping stone to veganism), is like a murderer offering to tranquillise their victim before killing them.

Cheers, T i m