OT: A drop in the ocean?

All that would happen is the population would expand to meet food production, and damage the environment further. There is lot of blame towards Fritz Haber and Carl Bosch for increasing consumption of non-food materials. Veganism would result in a higher population and deplete the planet of more valuable resources.

This argument is as good as yours, but you're closed to ideas outside your own fanaticism.

More crap from your vegan sponsored sites.

Read the above.

Are you saying other animals don't pollute? If this is such a biggy why do you want the human population to increase?

Go on admit it, your motives are out of jealousy. I eat meat and you're not allowed to.

B12 supplements are not normally needed for grazing cattle. Perhaps the ground your cattle graze on is different to most? Or is it simply vegan lie you choose to spread?

Fortunately we can absorb sufficient B12 from meat products to keep healthy.

It is now mainly a vegan issue. Many vegans will have mental health issues.

Oh, like this:

Cheers, T i m

You *really* are away with the f'ing fairies mate. Are you so desperate you have to continuously make stuff up? Is it the voices in your head telling you to tell such lies? Or are you doing it because you are frustrated because I can totally ignore your BS because I'm not interested in it, and only reply to watch you faceplant over and over?

Bwhahaha, of you, you moron ... oh, you are serious? Let me laugh in your face even louder ... BWHAHAHAHAHA!

Yes, because you want to torture animals, hang them up and cut their throats, drink their lactate and eat their periods!

The only person stopping me eating meat is me! 'Not allowed', you

I've *chosen* not to eat meat (and drink bovine lactate, and chicken periods) as it's the only way to *actually* prevent animal cruelty and exploitation.

Cheers, T i m

Now you know how you sound.

Are you in denial that if food production increases the population won't increase still further?

Do you deny that man made pollution is a strong function of world population?

That sounds a resounding yes. Is the craving getting to you? You mentioned bacon in an earlier post. Bacon is yummy stuff.

The difference between you and me is I want to reduce animal suffering.

You simply wouldn't support campaigns so that any act on the animal that might cause pain should only be done so on an animal that is either stunned or otherwise unaware of its surroundings.

You've admitted you enjoyed eating meat. Usually withdrawal creates a form of resentment.

Good for you. See, I'm not even stipulating you need a licence for your diet.

The difference between you and me is I want to reduce animal suffering.

You won't support campaigns so that any act on the animal that might cause pain should only be done so on an animal that is either stunned or otherwise unaware of its surroundings.

You are happy that an animal is held upside down whilst bleeding to death and aware of it's surroundings.

You are a sick f*ck.

You are back on yer own mate. You are a complete nutjob.

Cheers, T i m

See what I mean?

Animals s*it, didn't you know?

Of course, it's not "vegetable protein".

(a) grass is not protein (b) grass is not a vegetable

Animals are a good way to convert grass, which I can't digest, into meat, which I can. And they can do it in places where rough grass is all that will grow. Useful way to use that land.

I am Halal intolerant myself .....

he really doesn't

no he does too, but lacks basic critical thinking skills, and posts way too much to be worth addressing.

Now you know how you sound.

Are you in denial that if food production increases the population won't increase still further?

Do you deny that man made pollution is a strong function of world population?

The difference between you and me is I want to reduce animal suffering.

You simply wouldn't support campaigns so that any act on the animal that might cause pain should only be done so on an animal that is either stunned or otherwise unaware of its surroundings.

Of course that to you is trolling BS. To everyone else they are reasonable questions and an accurate observation.

Cheers, T i m

So, you are therefore tolerant of all the other negative things that the animals you eat have to suffer?

Cheers, T i m

'Reduce', so what level of animal suffering do you think *is* acceptable OOI (just because you fancy eating their flesh, lactate and periods)?

You mean the ones where people carry on causing suffering to animals , drinking the lactate meant for their children and eating their periods you mean?

Ah, too much information for you to dispute?

Twatter is that way >>>, this is a *discussion group* and you are more than welcome to not join in and just STFU. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Like many opponents of halal slaughter, Jim's views owe more to racism than a concern for animal welfare. It is possible to do halal slaughter with minimal distress to the animal, conversely it is common to distress animals greatly before they are stunned, and equally for stunning to fail. There is not a great deal to choose between ways of killing.

Another thing that D i m doesn't seem to know about is that some animals produce their own B12!

Unfortunately, the B12 is produced further down the digestive tract than the part that absorbs it. Animals therefore eat their own s*it to get the B12 that would otherwise be wasted.

This goes for humans too, so get his daily intake, D i m has only to eat his own s*it!

He produces plenty of it, so he'll be fine.

Lactate is a salt (or anion) of lactic acid rarely found in milk, but found in human blood during anaerobic exercise. Lactose is a milk sugar and not species specific (but often poorly tolerated by adult mammals). I don't know what the Latin for milk is. I tend to say "milk".

Oh look, the Squeaker Goblin is replying to one of my threads *again*, after saying he wouldn't. What a cu*t!

Oh you stupid troll. I have never said 'grass is a protein', I've said 'grass contains protein'.

"The quantity of protein in grass varies typically from 16-28%, depending on the sward type, growth stage, fertiliser regime and time of the year. Occasionally, protein levels in grass dip as low as

It is when we are playing animal, vegetable, mineral (where the Squeaker Goblin is a vegetable of course).

'Animals'?

My dog is an animal and when he eats grass it comes out untouched?

If you eat grass (you are also an animal), it comes out untouched (so you got that bit right at least).

No you can't, just as you can't digest grass. You ARE NOT a carnivore.

To be able to properly digest meat you have to either pound it up thin and fine (you couldn't even bite though a raw lump of it, you don't have the teeth for it) or cook it. Meat eating animals don't have to cook it first. Your digestive system is too short and the stomach acid too weak to break it down fast enough (unless already pre broken down by cooking, just as it is with many vegetables of course except they won't go bad in your gut). We can 'graze' raw nuts, berries, many fruits and veg (like raw lettuce, carrots, onion, seeds, cucumber, tomatoes etc etc). Onion is poisonous to dogs. We can eat many root vegetables raw but we get better calorific value from them by pre-processing by cooking.

We don't need those places.

Or just let it go back to what it was providing a much wider ecosystem (*just* as they are doing all over the world now of course).

Fact. If we went over to plant based foods now, we could feed more people than we do today including meat.

The maths is so basic even the Squeaker Goblin could get someone help him understand it.

If animals convert their food (and very little of it is grass) to protein and we eat them for that protein we are using a conversion system that on average is 8.5% efficient.

So, if we were to use the land to grow food for us to eat directly we wouldn't need as much of it, so could ignore that land which isn't viable for industrial levels of farming.

Cheers, T i m

Ok thanks, however, it is often used (correctly or otherwise) to refer to the liquid produced when a female animal is 'lactating'?

Quite.

But by using 'lactate' it differentiates between what 'we' (this family) now refer to as just 'milk', which is plant based. ;-)

If / where it might matter, or there be a preference, we might say 'can I have oat milk please'.

Daughter popped into a Pret the other day:

So that's all the fast food places doing something vegan now and all of it seems to be selling well (so much so that Greggs gave their staff a bonus off the back of their vegan 'sausage rolls'). ;-)

Cheers, T i m