Off peak electricity

A friend of mine asked the local electricity company to install a "white meter", Economy 7 type thing to power his night storage heaters.

The company said that it is not their policy to install such meters anymore, and that it is all done by computer.......!! This answer intrigued me, any idea what the chap was talking about?

Reply to
John Horne
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They remotely monitor the new meters, so they know when you use the off peak stuff. I would hang on to the old meter as long as possible (if you have one), at least you know exactly where you are.

MrCheerful

Reply to
MrCheerful

Three years ago my electricity board installed a dual scale meter and Rugby driven clock to tell the meter when to swicth from peak rate to cheap rate. All for free! NB this is not Economy 7.

Rgds Richard

Reply to
Richard Savage

In article , MrCheerful writes

How?...

Reply to
tony sayer

The (very) old white meter system simply activated a separate circuit during the night. This circuit was usually confined to storage heaters. The "new" (err....about 20 years) system simply switches the meter between two charging tariffs. If you put your washing machine, tumble dryer and dishwasher on at night this can give a considerable saving.

Reply to
Peter Parry

With my economy 7 supply I have a single meter for the whole house with one supply The meter records off peak and on peak usage.

It is my responsibility to make sure that any devices that I want to power by off peak electricity are only connected to the supply at the appropriate time (which I do by using a time switch.)

Michael Chare

Reply to
Michael Chare

I believe there is some sort of pulse put out over the mains feed which identifies your usage.

MrCheerful

Reply to
MrCheerful

Sounds to me like you got a complete wanker on the call centre.

Try again and see what they say. I`m in the industry, and although i`m not on the metering side, I do order replacement meters for shift electricians to fit.

Reply to
Colin Wilson

A phase modulated signal is sent out on Radio 4 longwave, 198kHz which is detected by the leccy meter and switches the consumption recorded between standard and off peak.

Phase mod is used so that the signal can also be used a stable frequency reference for other purposes.

Bob

Reply to
Bob Minchin

Hmm, I have a single meter with dual rates that is 'managed' by a separate clock close by. The clock also has a substantial switch in it that feeds another mini CU that raidially feed the storage rads.

The rads 'only' come on during the Economy period but *everything* on at night is charged at the lower rate *we use timeswitches on the Washing machine, tumble dryer, dishwasher etc). I also used to run an electric car and that was generally charged overnight.

Out of interest, had we only had the std rate, the total units used since they fitted this system probably 15 years ago is 165439 and if we said +AH4-5p / unit that would be +AKM-8271.95.

But of that, 93057 units were charged at the lower rate (say 2p / unit) saving +AKM-1861.14 ?

There was a small standing charge but I think the calculations suggested that if you had even a fridge and freezer (on 24/7) the standing charge would be covered.?

All the best ..

T i m

Reply to
T i m

It's quite a balancing act as with the "E7" tarrif the standing charge and peak unit cost is higher than the normal "domestic" charges. So the amount of power you need to use in the off peak period is related to how much you use during the peak period.

Using NORWEB/Energis/PowerGens old E7 and domestic tariffs you had to use 1.47 units to save the increased standing charge and an additional

0.21 units for each peak rate unit used to save the the increased peak rate cost. At reasonable useage rates (>15 units/day) you need to use about 1/4 of that power in the off peak period. ie 4 units off peak and 11 peak just to break even.
Reply to
Dave Liquorice

White meters are no longer supplied, you get a dual rate meter and a timeswitch. These days probably a radio controlled (from the 198kHz LW transmissions) time switch.

Teletubbies don't know anything if it's not on the screen in front of them. So if you don't ask the right question you won't get the right answer. And as the teletubbie does know anything you can't explain in simple words what you want for him to then supply the word(s) you need to ask the right question. Teletubies screens don't appear to have any "search" facilties either...

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Hi Dave,

When I took up my 'cheap night rate tarrif' (I think it is/was called E7 even then) I was told the std units would remain the same price whilst the 'economy' units would be cheaper. I'm not sure if they have kept the contract the same (I should look shouldn't I ).

A mate who lived in the Newmarket area had a raised std unit price but a lower cheap rate than mine (he may not of had a standing charge either).

All the best .. T i m

Reply to
T i m

In article , Bob Minchin writes

That's controlling your meter, not "monitoring" it.....

Reply to
tony sayer

Does this directly control the meter switching from one tariff to another?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought all this signal did was to keep the time clock accurate, and the meter still switches over according to what time it was preset at when first installed?

Nick

Reply to
Nick Read

No. Older style two rate meters relied upon a local t/s. Teleswitched meters use either a mains-borne signal or a broadcast signal. If you check the tariff, you'll see that the leccy company will give you seven hours between the hours of, say, midnight and 08.00.

Reply to
Wanderer

As far as the 198kHz signal is concerned there is, somewhere, on the web a pretty reasonable description of what it does, how it does it and the control the leccy co's have over the switching.

All depends on the tariff you have. See T i m ' s post about variations in tariffs. It really is a nightmare now and you have to know your actual consumption at the proposed peak/off peak hours to come to any sensible conclusions.

There certainly are tariffs about that float the 7 hours within a window, or split it within a single nighttime window. There are others that give you 5 hrs in a night window and another two in an afternoon window. Standing charges may or may not(*) exist, be more or less than the normal domestic tariff.

(*) Though they normally they claw that back by charging you more for the first X units each quarter. So it's just marketing puff, no real saving to the consumer.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Some older style systems relied on an electric clock to make the switch which was fine until there was a power cut.

On a completely unrelated subject it would be interesting to know what percentage of electricity is stolen by various means.

And what different methods people use, bypassing the meter, impeding the disc inside the meter turning, using some sort of phase shift device to make the dial turn backwards and wiring into the street lamp or the nextdoor neigbour house are all methods I have heard of.

I wonder if the more technically savvy are able to replicate the 198Khz time signal to make the cheap rate meter kick in at the flick of a switch?

As of yet, I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for bypassing a water meter.

John.

Reply to
JhnWil875

I knew someone who stopped the mechanical Economy 7 timeswitch for about 12 hours using a large magnet. This meant that from then on he got the seven off-peak hours during the day instead of night. None of the meter readers ever noticed, even when the meter itself was replaced they failed to spot the incorrect time on the timeswitch, and that was before privatisation, when the meter was read every quarter by electricity board staff.

Nick

Reply to
Nick Read

Oh, there is a real saving to the customer if he or she has a whacking great load that can be restricted to the cheap period. I have an 18kw pool heater and running that at just under 3p per unit is *much* cheaper than at 8 or 9p per unit!

When E7 was the only day/night tariff, as distinct from the variety of time of day tariffs now available, the rule of thumb break-even point was for more than 27% (If I remember correctly!) of unit consumption to occur during the cheap rate period. The other thing, of course, was that the night rate unit charge was the same across the country pre-privatisation. Whether that's still the case I can't be bothered to research

Reply to
Wanderer

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