O.T. : What Have We Done ... ?

I suspect it was a posh way of distinguishing oneself from the local oiks by being "correct". I was born in the 50's 15 miles from Coventry. During the sixties, the pronunciation was occasionally discussed and used in both forms. The "Cuventry" form died out (for obvious reasons) by the early

1970's. A significant percentage of my grandfather's generation used that pronunciation but rarely the succeeding ones, so we are talking about what was common (in RP) pre-WW2 persisting afterwards. The same generation (at least those who frequented the establishments) would refer to an 'otel (again, probably to distinguish themselves from those who didn't).

My father, who worked in radio during the war and on cinema sound systems afterwards, always pronounced "stereo" as "steereo", still listed as an alternative pronunciation, although he was from Lancaster and never said barth or grarse but bath and grass with short "a"s, so it wasn't a southern affectation nor ignorance of the subject, just what he was told was "correct" earlier in his life.

"Correctness" is a slippery beast, that may not have the parentage one expects. I prefer a dynamic language where different generations use different forms - it's more interesting, less snobbish and less judgmental.

Reply to
Bob Mannix
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Last time I was in Inverness, I heard a lot of Polish...

Reply to
S Viemeister

Granted, but I'm not sure they regard themselves as being in a mess as they don't notice! I always say "data are", if for no other reason (aside from correctness) than just to be different!

Reply to
Bob Mannix

Oh well, they appreciated it in the nearby pub :-)

Reply to
PeterC

It's agin the law, innit?

Reply to
PeterC

The advantage to a 'standard' is that everyone can learn it, but it does need to be adequate for all puposes - think Times rather than Sun. With too many and extreme examples there's a risk of incomprehensibility amongst the majority.

ISTR that, possibly in the '70s, there was a requirement to be able to speak English to be considered for the Indian cricket team; it would have been possible to have around 20 languages in 1 team - and none of them understood by any other team in Test cricket.

Reply to
PeterC

There's the typical reporterdroid on news programmes that talks of 'a new bacteria' being discovered - or manages 'these bacterium'.

Reply to
PeterC

But is estuary English Cockney?

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Not me I don't think.

I am just arguing for *a* standard of punctuation and spelling and pronunciation, even if its subject to change.

Accents I don't care about much.

The key issues should be

standard universally comprehensible unambiguous.

Now a deep west country burr or a jamaican sound is fine..if its just and accent.

I think people are confusing accent as in 'BBC english 1955' with those attributes.

I am not sure what received pronunciation means anyway..but if it means not having to listen to 'The rhine in spine faws minely on the pline' I am all for it.

And I don't give a toss about people talking dialects either. Just that they are taught *a common language, one way*, so they can, if needs be, use it.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Well that is precisely my point.

What I was saying..

Pronunciation is not accent. accent is intonation, pitch and stress. Pronunciation is the full use of consonants correctly and a reasonably close approximation to the standard vowel sound.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

We aren't disagreeing. Accent is not the issue. Pronunciation and local dialect is.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I don't know how you can possibly draw that conclusion.

I'm no xprt, but Ive enciountrd at least 4..

Glaswegian, Educated 'lowlands', Highlands and Orkney.

And Cockney is very very rare these days.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

get the chip off your shoulder.

If someone comes along an tells you that the correct way to cut plastic pipe is with a hacksaw,. you correct them. It cuts it, but it makes a feeble and bad joint if you do. If you know latin, use it correctly, if you don't know it, don't use it and then complain when you make a fool of yourself trying to appear educated in it when you aren't.

Its the people who bastardise Latin that are trying to appear smart.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

c/its/it's/

Reply to
Reentrant

Cuvventry is clipped english - old RP circa 1950 pronounced like 'Dove' as in the bird rather than dove as in dived..

Whether its better or worse than t plethora of variations that have replaced it i a moot point.

As I say, I wish there was one standard, to teach and learn and communicate in.

The net result today is a bunch of people using words and grammar they can't spell, can't pronounce, and can't correctly use, with chips on their shoulders saying 'well it dunt matter unnywye yer fink Im fick or summink?'

To which the natural reply to the rhetorical question is 'Yes. Or posing beyond your pay grade, dear'

All this bad grammar is pure posturing. People who on the on hand decry RP and grammar, because they never learnt either, and on the other insist on using complex constructs and words they don't understand, and can't spell.

It only impress people even less educated than they are.but its utter hypocrisy. IF they value the SOUND of being educated, why piss on those who actually are?

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

when was the last time you saw 'a datum point' written or spoken... ;-)

Anyway we all know that 'data' is someone trying to get laid on facebook..

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

And the singular of dice is a die..

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Try air traffic control and being a commercial pilot.

There HAS to an international language and it HAS to be clear and unambigous.

'hi this is shirly frem Leeverpool, now wossup, sorry i cant understand you, what ya mean emergency descent to 3000? '

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

No, you are - you do it in the next line.

But accent is strongly related to pronunciation. If you're to allow accents, you can't have a single standard for pronunciation, which is what you seem to be asking for.

Reply to
Clive George

Fair cop! ;-)

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

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