Non-fused and non-earthed

[adder1969]

A friend of mine was teling me about his flat recently. he had a new kitchen installed and had some sockets moved. The fitter removed all the fuses from the fuse box (the old slot in kind with fuse wire) but apparently the kitchen circuit was still live. Switching the main plug did work though. In the cupboard there seems to be two fuse boxes both with only a few fuses in. Also the electrician or fitter moved a socket but didn't install a new cable so the chasing down the wall is diagonal. Apparently the council signed off the work.

Also, the lighting ciruit has no earth and he was recommended to replace the metal light switches with plastic ones. He was told that he couldn't have a new consumer unit as the feed to the flat wasn't up to the job.

Can anyone comment on all this as to whether it's normal or legal etc?

[Christian McArdle]

A dodgy installation either on the supplier's side or on the house side is all the more reason to have a modern consumer unit.

Christian.

[John Rumm]

Did he remove all the fuses from both of the boxes?

This would only be acceptable if either the depth of the cable was 50mm or more from *both* sides of the wall, OR, he used earthed metal capping over the cable to protect it from damage.

Nonsense

[David Hansen]

On 4 May 2006 02:46:43 -0700 someone who may be [e-mail] wrote this:-

Then presumably the fitter removed the wrong fuses from the wrong fuse box.

What do the council know about electricity?

Provided it they are suitably protected not a great problem, though something to avoid if possible.

Sensible, provided that this does not disturb the insulation on the wires which is probably brittle rubber.

Incorrect.

It sounds like the whole place should be rewired in the near future. However the first step would be to have a thorough inspection and test done to identify any major problems.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Man's a fool or charlatan. Replacing old fuse box by a modern CU with RCD protection etc can only improve safety, and the feed has nothing whatsoever to do with this.

[meow2222]

More detail would really help, but it sounds like this might be an ancient rubber installation in need of replacement. If its 1960s pvc with unearthed lighting, there is a lot less to worry about, though it would still be short of modern standards.

Either way I doubt theres much mileage in an inspection/test, since it will fail on a number of points, and if you dont understand the issues with it now you ilkely wouldnt be able to put the test result issues into a meaningful perspective. And to rectify things would need a full rewire anyway.

That leaves motivation from finding out how much is wrong as the only use of an inspection, but you could get that free by telling us more about it.

NT

[adder1969]

It's my friends flat and he knows nothing about DIY stuff. It looks to me like a 60's type building - a purpose built block of flats in Brighton.

He says that's all the fuses were removed when they tried to isolate the kitchen. Apparently there was somehting about a master fuse that meant that a new consumer unit wouldn't be feasible to be installed. Sounds unlikely to me. Even if the lighting had no earth one can wire up a modern CU with different types of circuits.

The guy bought the flat a couple of years ago and the electrics were deemed as "old" but no mention was made to being unsafe etc but I reckon it must have only been a basic survey. There are extra sockets in the rooms surface mounted on skirting with the cable tacked on the skirting around the room so I guess the cowboys have been in before. The kitchen fitter who did the kitchen moved some sockets but again they're horrible surface mounted and the diagonal wire that goes to one of them isn't shielded. Not really a big deal I guess but I wonder what else is wrong.

[Mark Carver]

As they now have to approve DIY installation work in Part P, presumably everything ?

[Christian McArdle]

They certainly know how to ask you illegally to pay for a periodic inspection, in addition to the inspection fee.

Christian.

[David Hansen]

On 5 May 2006 03:29:17 -0700 someone who may be [e-mail] wrote this:-

And me.

Anyone doing that would need to check that the circuits are suitable and at that point it sounds like they would have to recommend replacement. If they were to connect them up anyway they would be in a difficult position were anything to go wrong.

All electricity is unsafe. If it was invented today the safety maffia would not allow it to be transported around the countryside. The question is how unsafe it is and it sounds like the flat wiring is in such a condition that replacement should be considered. The only way to find out is to get someone who knows what they are doing to take a look at it. Remote diagnosis by helpful people here can only go so far.

[meow2222]

ok. That coudl cover a fair range though, from knackered 50s rubber with local earth rod and no ELCB to a 1960s ashathene instalaltion with proper earthing arrangements. The first is pretty dodgy, the 2nd would be very much better.

If this is true, there is a fairly serious problem safetywise.

yes, its not correct.

one can. What legal position it puts a professional spark in is another matter.

With these surveys they dont assess the electrics to any useful extent.

Sounds like a big improvement on the original wiring.

Wire positioning that doesnt comply is a trivial matter, and pretty much the norm in housing today. So I wouldnt worry myself over cable on the skirting board.

Inability to switch off a circuit even after pulling all the fuses indicates a serious problem. It would take hundreds of amps in that circuit before the incomer fuse blew, and the wiring would melt or catch fire in the process. And opf course the end user would have no way to reset the fuse, and no power until the leccy board visited. And they may well refuse to reconnect.

What would help next is if you posted some pics, eg of light switches, the various cables and maybe the CU / fusebox area.

NT