No 1 daughter has bought a fancy metal chandelier for the dining room and asked me to fit it.
Upon unscrewing the ceiling rose, there is no earth. Isn't one in the switch either, so I'm guessing the wiring dates from when lighting circuits weren't earthed?
I've told her it can't be fitted. No 1 daughter, like most females, is not easily dissuaded once she has made her mind up...
What are the dangers of a class 1 lighting fitment not being earthed, so I can reinforce my argument?
Well there is a way... but she may not like it!
The "proper" solution is to rewire the circuit completely.
The next best is to:
1) fit a RCBO for the lighting circuit in question (and any other similar ones) 2) Fix a sticker on the CU highlighting the circuits without earths and pointing out that all accessories must be Class IIThe cheating alternative, if she really *must* have the fitting is:
1) Disconnect the existing line in and out cables from the rose, and join them in a wago box or similar, and poke em back into the ceiling. 2) Find a nearby socket circuit, fit a FCU with 3A fuse, and take a feed from it to the light. Power the lamp from that. If not also replacing the switch drop wire then make sure she does not want a class I fancy metal switch.
Electrocution mainly...
More background here:
snip
One other option sometimes is to bring the fitting upto Class 2 standard.
NT
Just run a separate earth wire. Ideally go round the other light positions too. It should go back to the consumer unit, not to the nearest socket.
Death, mostly.
Is No. 1 daughter the paramedic?
Another option not so far mentioned is to supply via an isolating transformer i.e. extra low voltage, and use 12 volt lamps or leds. 12 volt SBC and SES lamps are fairly readily available - try cpc.
Owain
There are currently a lot of metal (usually chrome plated) floor and desk lamps in all the stores which lack any earth connection. Are these compliant with any regs?
If they have the "two squares" double insulated symbol, they ought to be ...
I converted some living room lighting (3-lamp pendant and 2 wall lamps) to use 12V capsule lamps. Main reason was they were on a rather expensive X10 dimmer which I wanted to retain, whilst not wanting to run mains filament lamps anymore. A secondary effect was that halving the power of the lamps when moving to 12V still resulted in lots more light in the room, because the 12V filament are very much more efficient than the mains filament lamps. (This was before LED retrofits were around, but there aren't yet any suitable for these anyway.)
I had to rewire the 3-lamp fitting to handle the much higher current, and I had to use 4mm² T&E to connect it to the 12V transformer so as not to lose too much voltage in the cable. I stuck with T&E so it can be converted back to mains if required anytime in the future without rewiring the fixed wiring inside the ceiling.
Her argument is that it would only ever be touched when changing a bulb and she could turn to power off when she did it.
Yes.
and if the switch is in the neutral then it's frying time.
Protection by placing out of reach is not acceptable in a domestic environment.
Supposing there's a small child in the room waving a conductive light-sabre or similar about?
Owain
That's something TMH could check (& fix if necessary), isn't it?
How common is/was it to switch the neutral instead of the live?
Not to mention the times I have hit my head on peoples light fittings because they though that at 6'+ they would be safely out of anybodies way!
If it's a two way switch how would she know? Even a one way switch, most people don't know which way is on.
My last GF's place has metal fittings and plates and no earth on the circuits. Two of the 'chandelier'-type are about 6' 2" from the floor - just enough to look high but a couple of inches too low. So far, no shock.
Pull-switch, that is.
In article , The Medway Handyman writes
The short answer is that Class 1 equipment _must_ be earthed, it will say so in the instructions. Otherwise there is a risk to the user of electrocution if there a fault.
The long answer is that the designer made reliance on an earth connection to guarantee its safe operation. It is likely that a single fault within the appliance (eg. chafing of a single layer of insulation) could result in the metalwork becoming live and so to cover that failure mode it is earthed to protect the user. Without the earth, in those circumstances, the user could receive a fatal electric shock.
You can get metal cased class 2 lamps/products too but they have been designed in such a way that a single fault will not expose the user to a risk of shock. They are designed such that it would take 2 distinct and separate failures[1] to put the user at risk. As a result they are much safer and so can be used without an earth. This is represented in the class 2 'double insulated' square within a square symbol.
Having heard you mention your daughter's background here before I was surprised that she would be so carefree about a safety related issue. Rules and procedures, sod it, just slap the defib on and set to max, CLEAR, nah, that's for wooses . . . .
[1] technically it is possible to use 'reinforced' insulation where it is not practical to use 2 separate ones.
Take out fuse or switch off MCB.
The differences between a modern class 1 & Class 2 product are fairly minor, and its often very easy to turn 1 into 2, hence my suggestion. In a lot of cases it requires nothing more than a cable tie.
Main requirements for class 2:
And fwiw the risk in using an unearthed _modern_ metal chandelier is actually very small. We take far bigger risks daily without batting an eyelid.
NT
The problem is that insulation failure (or any number of other causes) could make it live. Normally earthing ensures that it can only be live for a very short period of time - in likelihood preventing a shock in the first place, and making it far less dangerous if you happen to be unlucky enough to get one.
Without earthing, a fault will leave it live permanently. And there it will wait, until it bites someone having a stretch, wielding a vacuum cleaner, moving a ladder etc.
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