no earth and other woes

[rick]

My son bought his first house ..... and my list of jobs to be done increases weekly.

Last week he bought several new ceiling lights ......... it seems existing lights were simply screwed to plasterboard - not even toggle fittings - just standard plugs. On each one I raised floorboards in room above and fitted solid noggins to give good fixing.

Interesting observation so far in that the lights have been wired with single core PVC insulated, PVC sheathed (6181Y) all in black core sheath. At least they have put a bit of red tape to mark the switched live

Is this a common way of doing things ..... I have never wired up this way ... even if using junction boxes method rather than loop-in ceiling roses, always used t&e to the light point.

The issue here is that there is no earth at lighting point ......... 2 of the ceiling lights require earths ....... so looks like my job this weekend is to find a suitable point to pick up earth feed for each light .... I'm sure it is going to be a lot of hassle.

Surprisingly one thing I did notice there is a standard 3 pin AC switched socket in the bathroom ... fitted at skirting level about 6" from the bath ! My boy is not very happy that I am insisting on removing this or no more work.

When I went to knock off lighting cct - found that previous owner had done some 'boxing in' around the CU & meter ... unfortunately built it such that you can't open the flap on the CU .... frame blocks it - you gotta love bodgers !

Was looking for power feed to his boiler ... and behind his kitchen units found 2 fused spur sockets hanging in mid air from a ring main, providing feeds to washing machine & boiler - incredible someone would leave then simply hanging - I assume they must have been fitted some way to a previous layout and were left in that state when new kitchen fitted .... out of sight out of mind !

Amazing condition on the some of the electrics - and house came with an electrical inspection pass certificate !

[tabbypurr]

It must have been bogus. No-one with a clue passes 2 core lighting.

NT

[ARW]

Any chance you could share a copy of that certificate - obviously removing all details of the house address and the company that did the inspection etc?

If this is a genuine EICR then the company that issued it should be brought to task.

[Scott]

I think the company that did the inspection should remain.

[ARW]

For now I would have to disagree. The company name on the cert may not have been issued by the company or indeed have done the inspection!

[tabbypurr]

and a competitor might have something to do with this.

NT

[ARW]

Well they were NOT my first thoughts.

[Scott]

Am I missing something? Without the name of the company or the location of the work, what purpose does sharing the cerfificate achieve? Is it just so we can all enjoy a virtual argument?

[Caecilius]

It would at least show what the certificate claims to be. Does it claim to be an EICR? Does it have a limited scope that excludes lighting circuits (if that's even possible)?

[ARW]

I think you have covered about 90% of what I am thinking.

[harry]

Sounds to be the sort of job where a complete rewire is needed. (Start from scratch). There may well be other hidden problems.

[Alan]

Actually, it may well have got a 'Satisfactory' in an inspection if all the fittings were Class 2 (plastic) No idea about the other things, but you generally dont go round dismantling everything during an inspection report.

[tabbypurr]

Horse.

[ARW]

So what has Alan said that is wrong?

[rick]

I'll ask my boy for a copy

[rick]

I have strongly suggested this to him .... but he does not want all the mess that goes with chasing cables into walls etc. It's his house - I can't force him.

I was amazed that a 13A outlet alongside bath !

[Brian Gaff]

I remember after moving in here back too long ago to remember, some years on my did wanted to alter some of the wiring and after drilling through some very strangely routed wall light cables simply chased diagonally in a wall, he employed a very early transistor long wave radio, to follow the mains wiring. It was shall we say, a revelation what people had done since

1939 when it was built. Cables wired to a plug behind a bit of chipboard be plugged into a socket to put a mains socket in a wardrobe, Lights over beds with no earth at all wired up with ordinary mains lead you might find on a table lamp, electric fires wired to lighting circuits. You could tell the times roughly as the original wire was rubber covered then came rubber covered with a kind of woven sleeve, then pvc mains lead. Lots of 5 amp unfused two pin sockets and round pin three pin sockets, some actually did have earths some not. In the end after he died and when several lights stopped working in the upstairs and fuses blew for no reason we had the house rewired. Yes a mess certainly but although it is not up to today's spec obviously recent checks show good earths and everything still good. Having said all of that of course, wiring sockets like suggested in this thread into a bathroom at floor level in reach of a bath was even a bodge too far in this house. Brian

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You'd need to do a careful examination. It's quite possible some of the basic wiring is sound, and could be re-used. This might be worthwhile on a DIY basis.

For example, with lighting circuits, there was quite a long period of time where TW&E would have been used - but the earths simply not connected as they weren't required by regs. If this is the case, it might be possible to connect those earths without replacing (all) the wiring. And remove all the bodges that may just have been added later.

If paying a pro, it's proably cheaper to start afresh.

[ARW]

I'll look forward to seeing it.

The 13A socket next to the bath would be an instant failure.

[rick]

Spent last weekend adding earth connections to his lights (such fun) and I also removed the socket in the bathroom.

On further questioning .. it turns out he was verbally told all electrics had safety certificate - but he was not given a copy of any such certificate. So apologies for that incorrect piece of information.

While checking lights - found 2 wall light supplies consist of a t&e cable and a choccy block ... they were both hidden behind picture frames.

Advised strongly that a full rewire should be done - he rejects that due to mess it would cause.

I understand his issues - bought the house all been painted (for the sale) and cutting channels into walls would make a lot of mess - but would certainly do it if it were me.

Next job to persuade him that junction box & ac socket hanging in mid air in the gap behind his kitchen units is not acceptable, and we should resolve that and also put in a fused spur to the boiler - currently has to knock off complete CU to isolate boiler. ( it is plugged into AC outlet behind kitchen units - but you can't get to it to unplug or switch off)

Wiring been modified many times by look of it .. looks like there are also multiple sockets daisy chained off each other ... almost a radial added to a ring main.