new washing machine advice

Hello,
My old Hotpoint washing machine has died. It was making a noise on the spin so I replaced the bearings and was very proud of myself. It only lasted a couple of weeks! We did a wash yesterday morning and that was fine. then e put another wash in and the drum had seized solid. I'm puzzled how one minute it was turning and the next it was not.
I know I could replace the bearings again but SWMBO wants a new machine. I know Borsch and Miele are recommended here. I don't think I could afford a Miele (I think they are over 1000) so I will look at Bosch.
I think that some Bosch machines are made with split tubs in Germany and the cheaper ones are made somewhere else with sealed tub. Is there an easy way to find out which model had which type of tub? It would be nice to have a split tub so that bearings could be changed in the future.
Is there any advice on what to buy or not to buy feature wise? One well known web site said not to bother with a spin over 1200rpm because it claims you do not extract significantly more water. It also said that 6kg capacity was sufficient and that anything larger caused more vibration because there was less space between the tub and the case. However I cannot find anyone selling anything less than 8kg load.
Thanks, Stephen.
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If I consider "Cost of Ownership" over about a 30 year period then Indesit have not let me down. I consider them to be disposable in the event of a major failure. However, I have also found them reliable and the biggest repair was a set of brushes in one. I cannot remember why I eventually relaced any of them. (Make way for Miele fans!)
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Panasonic do some nice ones at the budget end I can atest, but the last two I had were Hoover and Service, sadly both, though long lasting, are now no longer owned by the people who built them in their day and I'm always suspicious when this happens and sadly its happening a lot recently! The Panasonics look and feel sturdy to me and mine is working fine, though I cannot quite get used to it making decisions on how long it will take for a load on some arbitary factor as yet unknown!
Brian
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I'm a bit of a Miele fan I'll admit :-)
The killer thing with Miele is although they are very reliable, if they do go wrong then it'll cost you the price of a hotpoint to get it repaired if you aren't lucky...
That and the fact parts are like rocking horse shit to find. I guess as a result of the limited market for them.
We have a Miele washing machine, but waited for one of the 10 yr warranty offers before buying.
Cost 900 quid for 10 years. 90 quid a year was a price we were willing to pay - with a couple of kids it gets a fair work out and has been brilliant so far (9 years in...)
I could have been on my 3rd cheapo machine by now and still only spent the same (but I still like the Miele and would buy another one ;-))
Darren
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We bought a low-spec Miele at about the same time our neighbour bought a cheapo machine (same sized households).
She's on her 4th such machine after 20 years and has also spent a fair amount on repairs over that time. The Miele now looks well used, but works just as well as when we bought it. Note: Cleaning the filter & running it on a hot wash from time to time is the only maintenance it has ever needed.
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On 26/08/2013 00:15, Sam Plusnet wrote:

Too many variables to make a comparison.
Your neighbour may have been overloading the machine on a regular basis whereas you may have more kind to yours.
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snipped-for-privacy@admac.myzen.co.uk says...

Fair point, but she's a (retired) engineer, & with only two in their household I'm fairly confident she treats her machines quite well.
But it is far too small a data set to make any predictions.
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-1On 25/08/2013 10:01, DerbyBorn wrote:

+1 I always treat them as disposable items and buy at the cheap end of the market and find that the machines last 5+ years. I don't bother with any warranty contracts. Although usually rubbished by many here with expensive machines I've found my bottom of line Indesit machine meet my needs.
Past experience of any machine is unlikely to tell you anything about future reliability etc. Many different brands are made in the same factories and/or manufacturing has been outsourced in the recent years. Although my last purchase was an Indesit it doesn't mean my next purchase will be.
Consider also what you need from a machine. I guess that 99.9% don't use _ANY_ of the bells and whistles on the more expensive machines at the top of the range. In this household it tends to be the use of one of two program cycles with a cold wash and the occasional high temperature wash to "sanitise" the machine.
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+1. Buy on appearance and features that suit you. (Just bought a Gorenje Fridge on appearance and colour. Found that the maker is a huge company yhat supplies to many large countries in the former Yugoslavia region. Does it matter if it has a trnage sounding name?)
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On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:36:34 +0100, Stephen wrote:

The more expensive Logixx range appears to be made in Germany. We've had one for two years now and it's excellent. very good build quality, qiet and efficient. It's a world away from Hotpoint. We managed to get it discounted (from Comet!) so shop around.
The next range down, not sure about. below that, definitely made elsewhere.
Sorry, don't know about the split tub. Not that that's necessarily a guide; our *old* Hotpoint (not the newer one) had a one piece tub but nevertheless the bearings were replaceable.

I wouldn't worry about that. Sounds like "Which?" rubbish to me...they are experts on nothing.
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I was warned off LG as the direct drive innards are appraently very expensive to fix if they ever can be. Biko, interestingly have quite a few fans, but to me they look cheap and flimsy, I guess its really depeendent on how much they get used.
Brian
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On 25/08/2013 11:32, Brian Gaff wrote:

The motors themselves appear to have a 10 year warranty from LG.
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On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 12:41:10 +0100, polygonum wrote:

But if it takes a fitter the best part of a day to get access, swap out, rebuild and test you are still going to have a considerable bill outside the complete machine warranty period...
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Yes, I thought that might be the case. The thing is that I was wondering about getting the middle one and that's the one none of us are sure about!

How do you swap the bearings on that? Working from only behind the tub?
Thanks, Stephen.
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On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 15:14:33 +0100, Stephen wrote:

Undo the big nut on the back of the shaft, withdraw drum from front (having removed front panel). Drift out bearings from inside the drum.
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Sorry about the blank post.
It was the uk white goods web site that is sometiems recommended here. That said, whenever I have "cross posted" a question to uk.diy and there, I find the uk.diy answers are more for having and go and repairing, whereas the ukwg forums are too quick (imho) to say give up and buy a new one or reluctant to give advice for legal reasons (gas, electricity, etc)
Thanks, Stephen.
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Hard to imagine what would do that, unless the bearing collapsed so badly the drum is jammed against the outer drum. Another possibility would be something has got jammed between the two drums.

Depends what you expect when you take things out. A towel taken from a 1600 RPM spin, whilst not dry, has little enough water left in it that you can use it to dry you. If you are going to use energy to do the remaining drying (tumble drier, drying over radiators or hanging in a heated house, etc), then the faster spin drying is much more efficient than the heat taken from your home in the longer drying time.
The force on the water is proportional to twice the spin speed, so 1400 RPM is 36% high and 1600 RPM is 77% higher drying force than 1200 RPM. However, it's true that most of the water is ejected when it's done the initial spin at around 300RPM.
My preference has always been to go for highest spin speed, and no tumble drier capability. I used a dehumidifier drier cupboard if I need things completely dried quickly after a 1600RPM spin.

That sounds like bullshit. The larger drum diameter also improves the effectiveness of the spin.

I think this relates rather more to the shorter life expectancy of modern machines. If you took a 20 year old machine with a 6kg rating and ran it at 8-9kg, it would probably last about 5 years, which is the life expectancy of most machines nowadays. It doesn't mean there was any significant design change to handle the extra weight. (There are significant design changes to handle the higher spin speeds.)
I did once weight out the max rated load for my machine, and I don't think you be able to physically fit it in the drum.
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Andrew Gabriel
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On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:35:05 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

I haven't taken it apart yet to see what has happened.

I agree. I always thought the more water out the better. Their argument seems to be that fast spins are noisy (our 1600rpm one certainly was) and puts more wear and tear on the machine.

I have heard the cupboard idea on this group before. Sounds good but I've never got around to it.

According to the same web site, the weight is calculated full to the top of the drum with clothes neatly folded to get the best load possible. They agree that this is done for marketing and impossible in use and that filling to the top would stop the clothes from spinning and falling properly Durant the wash.
Bosch seem to do an 8kg model and a 9 kg model. I wonder whether the 9kg bit is just to compete with the Jones and whether I could save some money by buying the less fashionable 8kg model.
I will take the advice of this group and go for the faster spin speed, though I think the 8kg ones only go to 1400 rather than 1600.
Thanks, Stephen.
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On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:35:05 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
[snip]

Actually proportional to the spin speed squared. Also proportional to the drum diameter squared.
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