I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.
It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?
I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage
How are you going to keep the 'leisure battery' charged? It'll need to be a *big* battery, a typical vacuum cleaner will take 600 to 1200 watts, at 12 volts that makes 50 to 100 amps. To handle that you need a *big* battery and good solid recharging facilities.
Leisure battery will run some lights, especially LED. You could even consider a solar panel to keep it charged.
For the power tools / vacuum, you are probably looking at say 1kW, or getting towards that. A leisure battery won't run an inverter for long supplying the required current to power the inverter and the load, unless it is a monster (over 100Ah).
(A quick look on Ebay shows a 1kW modified sinewave invertor with 85% eff. So, with a 1kW load, allowing for losses, you'd need 98A at 12V. You don't get an hour from 100Ah battery drawing 98A. )
Of course, those numbers are on the limit etc but having to stop and wait while the battery recharges is no fun.
A cheap generator is an option, you can pick up 2 stoke ones for less than the price of a decent leisure battery. Lidl did a 4 stoke one which was under £100 not long back and they are quieter. It may have even been an 'invertor' one, which will run things like PCs etc. The 2 stroke ones are OK but noisy and smell a bit. A small one will run, say, a small vacuum or drill.
Years ago I used a generator (a small Honda) in a similar situation. I sold it when I moved house and regretted it many times. I've since bought another one for motorhoming and had it converted to run on propane. We take it on some trips.
If you can power your shed from a temporary cable from a bedroom window, why isn't it possible to have a more permanent arrangement, suspending a cable from a catenary wire?
A leisure battery of reasonable capacity and an inverter will be heavy to lug about. Your choice but I think you would be better of with a small inverter generator. Lidl do one about once a year , 1200 Watts , weighs 13kg so east to carry. usually on sale for around £140. I got one last year . You tube clip of one
if you decide on a generator and can't find/wait for that one the inverter bit is important, they are far more economical on fuel as they adapt better to the load requirement and are kinder on sensitive electrical equipment. Older style generators small generators don't regulate their voltage well enough for modern electronics, most power tools would be fine but one day you may want to take something like a telly or microwave to the shed. Failing that if you are planning to run power tools from a battery set up implies not too long a use, why not use battery tools,lamps and vacuum cleaner anyway.
G.Harman
I, too, was going to suggest a generator if you really can't install a proper mains supply.
However, power tools often have a start-up current of several times their running current, so you will need to take that into account. [I have tools which my 2kW generator can't start even though they're rated at well below 2kW]. You probably need to think in terms of a 4 - 5 kW genny.
You are quite right to point that out but as Murmansk was proposing to use a battery and inverter I reckon his power tools will be small ones, and if he stays with his inverter proposal then that too will have to be sized in a similar manner. A 4 to 5kW inverter and battery set will require a large leisure battery or a bank of them that for the use he has told us will be quite impractical. the cables from battery to inverter would be hefty to carry over 400 amps .
G.Harman
G.Harman
Lighting you can run off a little battery, and if practical run a 12v feed from house to shed to charge it or run the lights direct.
The other stuff takes a lot more power. Either install mains for it or forget about it, there's very little likelihood of a genny being worthwhile. As well as the expense, they're very noisy and cheap ones are short lived.
NT
A modest sized solar panel can kick out a lot of power. It's a good way to maintain the charge of batteries, more so if power tools are only used say at weekends.
The panels and inverter are not cheap, but quiet and need little attention.
I bought one from them in June - it wouldn't start. After a great deal of waiting, and hassle, (I had to send it to their German service agent) I recieved a new one. Yesterday - when it mattered - that one failed.
If its going to be habitable in all seasons, I'd suggest finding a way to get the mains in really. Brian
I'd agree. A friend had a similar dilemma with his shed about 75 yards from the house. Looked into a range of options including solar, generators and inverters.
In the end the mains extension worked out better and cheaper. He saved money by digging the trench, and an electrician did the wirey bits.
I use mine regulary even on jobs where an extension could be used just to make sure it hasn't suffered from the tendency for unused machinery to sulk for no apparent reason. Sounds like you have been unlucky, OTOH hand that's two generators and one of you , sure you just havn't got the knack or havn't practised enough. When a storm has just knocked the lights off that's not the best time to find out a machines little foibles like how much choke to use or forget the fuel shut off tap, or in the case of that generator the electrical switch has to be in the on position before it will start which is a bit counter intuitive, you would think you could start the engine before switching on the load, in reality it is just the engine shutoff switch rather than power on off despite where it has been placed.
G.Harman
Brian Reay wrote: [snip]
I have a Honda clone, 2.5kw also converted to run on propane (as our boat has that for cooking anyway). It was very useful until we installed 3 x 260w solar panels which now keep our leisure batteries well charged.
You need a good (as in 'intelligent') charge controller to ensure that the batteries are kept fully charged but not overcharged at all. That adds a bit to the cost too.
Panels are now down below 50p/watt I think.
I have a very cheap/basic 500 watt inverter on my boat, it was bought as a stop-gap when my big 3kW inverter died. I've not bothered to replace it as it runs the following without issues:-
A standard domestic 'under counter' refrigerator A fairly meaty old B&D electric drill A 200 watt multi-tool A sander A dremel clone
The electric tools are not all run at the same time of course but they do run while the fridge is connected as well.
I'm actually quite good at proving things don't work very well. It must be my engineering background.
In the case of the generator, first fault was it would not start. I've started hedge cutters, strimmers and all sorts of similar engines over the last 50 years. The replacement one started perfectly, so I don't think it was me.. Yesterday, when a friend was trying to start it he found that the recoil mechanism on the starter failed, so the starter cord did not retract. Two completely different problems
Isn't there some form of separate Sods law for that? lent lawn mower syndrome or something? Often caused by unfamiliarity with the machine in the first place. I gave up lending things unless I go with it. Lost a good drill once it was 110 volt and I lent it to a mate with the transformer. His neighbour with whom he was on friendly terms saw it in his garage when he popped around but not the transformer, my mate was out but his wife said" I'm sure it will be alright for you to borrow it" . Brought it back burnt out, " all I did was change the round pin plug on it for a normal one as we haven't got a round pin socket."
G.Harman
An appropriate robust one:
suggests nearer £1 per watt. Though I might expect 1/2 of that for a few hours each day.
Most power tool use is intermittent so it is a doer. The issue is it cheaper than running a cable with the terminations/fittings and of course the 'obligatory' certificate?
I was thinking of (and have on my boat) standard 'house' solar panels with an output of 260 watts or thereabouts per panel. As soon as you go to 'special' caravan or boat panels you willpay more.
Yes, on the boat it makes all the difference between being able to go 'independent' for several days or needing to find a marina/mooring with electricity. It's not an either/or! :-)
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