New Central Heating / Plumbing / Windows - the lot!

[NoviceButWilling]

Ok - I'm being extremely brave here ;

Looking at buying a practically derelict farm house with 50 acres in Suffolk to renovate & run as an equine business. The horse side of things I can handle - and I will be on the receiving end of mountains of advice from 99% of my family - who are all involved in groundworks/house building/demolition/aggregate/scaffolding etc. So as well as having a project manager (my retired godfather) - I will have plenty of willing hands.

BUT, before I go mental and tell them what I am planning to do, I am trying to get some ball park figures together so I can lay out the beginnings of 'the plans' ;

Can anyone tell me what the following may cost on a large 4 bed, 1 bath farmhouse (roof & all floors/walls etc structurally sound)

Sash windows (approx 14 will need replacing completely, frames included)

All pipework (I imagine its all shot to bits) & new central heating system - all boilers, baths etc can stay where they are.

Complete re-wire

Approx cost of completely stripping plaster inc boards and re boarding/plastering

I know what most of this costs where I live currently, but I imagine Suffolk will be quite different.

Won't be putting an offer in until I have some rough figures to play with & all the trademen I speak to want to see the property first to quote (fair enough) - and point blank refuse to tell me what anything similar they worked cost.

Any help greatly appreciated!

[Christian McArdle]

A few guesses. Don't take me too seriously. ;-)

The cheapest I could find was Box Sash Willy's. Cost including frame is approximately 800GBP+VAT per window (frame + 2 sashes), obviously depending on size and specification. Not including fitting.

All pipework (I imagine its all shot to bits) & new central heating

Very variable, depending on who you get to do it. Around 4000? (I presume you need a new boiler, but no new sanitaryware). Maybe a little more if you need loads of new rads.

2000-3000, depending on size and spec.

Guess around 600 per room, possibly a bit more, depending on how much boarding/bonding is needed.

Christian.

[NoviceButWilling]

That's great Christian - thanks.

The place has no central heating at all - just a few wall heaters (farmers up there are obviously made from sterner stuff than I am!) so we'll be starting from scratch on that front.

jenny

[Christian McArdle]

What about the bath and toilet? Did they store coal in the bath, or is it in good condition and suitable for re-use?

Christian.

[NoviceButWilling]

I'll replace the bathroom suite - but - god bless family - my uncle runs a firm that builds and fits out houses on a development site scale

- so I'll hopefully get a nice suite for my birthday!!

[Christian McArdle]

Given that you're replacing the entire plumbing and electrical system, do consider the layout carefully. Now is the time to think about which rooms would be best suited as bathrooms and kitchens. Even new internal soil pipes are easy at this juncture, avoiding any need for sewage pumping to remote en-suites.

Christian.

[meow2222]

sounds like an opportunity...

forget to spend on insulation too. If its brick cavity, you can get subsidised CWI once the rest of the work's done. If its stone, stone has terrible insulation value, and insulation is more important.

Cheapest sashes I've seen were the local reclaim yard, =A370 a go for original Victorian sashes, fully glazed. Replacing them in one piece wont be BR compliant, but it is permitted to use as many parts of them as needed to repair any existing windows, even IIUC if that involves replacing every single piece. Beware of butt ugly upvc.

another opportunity can be had when wiring. Adding lots of cat 5 will enable not only internet around the house, but also present day apps such as phone, alarm, zoned heating, intercom, night lighting, etc and the various unknown apps that can be expected to crop up in the years and decades ahead. Cat5 is very cheap, and can cost nothing extra in chasing or plastering if done at the right time.

Drain heat exchanger can give 50% ROI. RCBOs instead of one RCD would be a wise way to spend =A3120-150.

NT

[NoviceButWilling]

The house is already pretty well laid out - depending on how much it costs to get it up to the standard where we can live in it - we will be adding an ensuite - but that will be in the largest bedroom against the wall it already shares with the bathroom.

I promise never-ever to use upvc on anything visible - can't bear the stuff - and it would break my heart to see this place (300 years old - even the extension is 150 yo!) ruined by something like that.

Cat 5 is a given - the chap I live with is an internet buff so he'll prob be dreaming about tha sort of thing while I worry about getting the barns to the standard I can keep horses in! Although I believe he has his heart set on Cat 6 already....bless!

I'm going back to view the place properly with a friend who is a surveyor at the weekend - I know the walls are brick - but I will be paying more attention to detail this time - I think I was just so blown away that the layout & potential were there last week that I missed half the simple observations I would usually make!

[Tim S]

I've heard figures in that order - electricians sometimes quote based on a figure per socket/switch in the order of 80 quid, give or take 20 quid, so I've heard.

I've just costed a DIY full rewire for a 2 bed house I was looking at, using TLC's website prices. Came to a little over a 1100 inc. VAT in parts, for

40 double sockets (about one every 2 metres on average in this case), several rooms with twin lighting circuits, top grade parts (brass fittings, good CU, RCBO's on most circuits) and mains interlinked fire-alarms. That might give you an idea if one of your relatives is doing this. You could easily halve the price if using more standard parts.

CAT5e wired double sockets at a slightly lower density was looking like an additional 600 quid - but I didn't complete the costing in detail - again, fancy plates.

HTH

Tim

[Tim S]

Couldn't agree more. When I've looked at knackered houses (couple recently) I;ve found myself thinking ahead - what if I get the upstairs ceilings re-boarded with suitably fire-resistant PB and stick lots of celotex on the underside of the roof - for relatively little extra dosh, doing work that needs to be done anyway but to a higher spec, I've completed some enabling works for a loft conversion in theory...

Reclaim yard - excellent suggestion. Don;t know where in Sussex the OP is, but on the Tunbridge Wells->Maidstone road (A228) just over the border into Kent, just past the roundabout to Paddock Wood is a very good yard. Fittings (bogs, windows etc) are a bit random, but there is an excellent stock of floorboards, timber, roof tiles, bricks and more railway sleepers (new and used) than you can shake a stick at. Quality of bricks and tiles looks quite good.

And use oval conduit under the plaster - costs sod all and (particularly with the CAT5e) makes cable replacement easy.

Cheers

Tim

[Chris Bacon]

That's very interesting, and I'd like it to be true. Have you any pointers to authoritative information saying it *is* true?

[Mungo]

Hmmm... must be really stern folk down there. Up here in Scotland we usually pump sewage away from en-suites!

(actually, we try to avoid sewage pumps following Peter Parry's article

- for those puzzled at this, see the FAQ article at

:-)

[NoviceButWilling]

Luckily the en-suite I plan to put in is next to the bathroom (the loos will share a wall), so I will be able to use standard size soil pipes and avoid scary pressurised poo.......

[Peter Crosland]

Sorry to pour water on your bonfire. You do realise that in planning terms equine use is not agriculture so you probably need planning permission for the change of use don't you?

Peter Crosland

[NoviceButWilling]

That side of things is all under control - I've spoken to DEFRA, the planning office, the BHS and the council. The land already has permission to be used as livestock grazing, and all the barns I want to fit out for horses are classed as general purpose with permission for livestock - I'll need planning permission for an arena, and the whole farm already has permission to keep livestock commercially. Under Suffolk regs, horses count as livestock.

The council were great - the house has 'special historical significance' and will be subject to a complusory repair order in the next 18 months if the current owners don't stop the decay thats happening - and they were so keen that the house & land be kept together that they are falling over backwards to help.

DEFRA have already done a feasibility survey and offered to help me apply for a grant as an equestrain business would count as farm diversification - which is being actively encouraged at present.

[Tim S]

Ow. Why did I read Suffolk as Sussex...

That's it - conclusive proof work gives you brain tumours...

Tim

[NoviceButWilling]

Clever! Its just as useful for me actually - I have friends in Sussex, so next time I'm there I will indulge in a little retail therapy - I think I may even have seen signs for the yard you mean - somewhere near Cross in Hand? (looked at a house there once)

[Ian Stirling]

One comment only. Conduit is lovely stuff.

If it was me - and after checking it is legal, I'd put a complete ring of 68mm or better conduit all round the walls at 'socket' height, rather than putting in too many sockets initially.

This would be immersed in 4" or so of insulation behind plasterboard.

Then you can put in water/gas/electical/pnuematic/oil/marmite connections in later, where you choose.

[Tim S]

Not the one I'm thinking of - there might be one where you say - I;ve seen a website for one in Sussex - probably a few around.

My local one is somewhere about here, give or take 1/2 mile. If you happen to go back via Tunbridge Wells, it's only about 20 mins drive out from the town.

the left, if heading towards Maidstone, before the Hop Farm. Actually hard to see, look for big metal gates - the sign is more obvious if approaching from Maidstone, so if you get to the Hop Farm, swing round the roundabout and it's no more than a mile coming back. I forget the yard's name. Not much stuff out front, but a massive yard round the back and helpful staff.

Cheers

Tim

[Peter Crosland]

Noted. Interesting to hear about this. AIUI horses are not regarded as agricultural animals or livestock in this context but I am happy to be proved wrong if you can quote some cases. Certainly the keeping of horses for pleasure purposes, often known as "horsiculture" is not agricultural use. There is no such thing as Suffolk regs. as the law covers the whole of England and Wales. Having said that your scheme sounds an excellent reuse of the property and I hope the bureaucracy does not get too involved

Peter Crosland