Mercury Regatta mobility scooter?

[T i m]

A mate is selling his wife's (she passed away recently) Mercury Regatta mobility scooter and I'm considering it for my Mum (90).

She did ride Dads lightweight / take-down trike but when coming to a halt on the down-amp at a pedestrian crossing, rather than just letting go of the throttle bar her ancient cycle riding muscle memory kicked in and she pulled what she for that second thought was the front brake. ;-(

Luckily I was ready for such and event and was just able to hold her back from going straight out in front of a 4X4 (that very considerately didn't slow down but just sounded the horn). ;-(

So, rather than a finger operated, brake-like f/r throttle bar, this Regatta has a thumb(s) operated 'Wigwag paddle' and apparently my sister hired her something like that at a garden centre and she got on with it well (no mishaps).

Anyway, mate has let us have it on approval to make sure 1) we can get it into Mums back garden easily and 2) to see if she's happy with it. I have previously done a discharge test on the 50Ah batteries and they were both around 40Ah so still useable.

So, we got it to ours tonight with the thought of taking it to Mums when we get a chance (one of us can ride it there) and when giving it a quick look over (I was going to treat the tyres (tunes) with Punctureseal and pump the tyres up etc) I felt the front suspension (a coil-over-shock on a trailing arm, like a sand rail ) and it felt non existent. I first put the grease gun on the main pivot nipples and it took a few pumps but I saw no grease anywhere. Not wanting to fill the arm with grease, I thought I'd better give it a closer look.

I removed the nsf axle bolt and had to tap the wheel off with a rubber mallet. Then, to get the swinging arm off I had to disconnect the track rod end, the spring damper and the king-pin (large socket head bolt with Nylock nut) and stub axle assembly.

I then released the trailing arm (central bolt and large washer) and pulled the arm off and it was very dry and rusty. The only grease that was in there was the few pumps I put into it that had only half filled the greaseway?

I later mentioned what I had found to my mate and he was particularly annoyed that he had paid another 60 quid (on top of the s/h purchase price of £600 in a mobility shop) for a 'full service'?

Ok, I wouldn't have expected them to strip what I did down but they obviously hadn't even stuck a grease gun on the front suspension?

I also found the sealed bearings in the steering upright / kingpin were so stiff the chances are they were sliding on the pin (and so wearing it out) and that wheel bearing was also noisy.

So, tomorrow morning I hope to do the other side and anything else I can strip / clean / check / lube and make notes of any bearings I find questionable, ready to replace if Mum likes it and decides to keep it.

Two things that we don't mind there. Assuming nothing has worn because the wrong stuff was moving ... 1) I can be happy it's all as it should be and 2) I will have a better understanding how it all works, should I need to look at any of it in the future.

I have already got the (Curtis) battery charger as that had stopped working. Upon inspection I found the main 6.3A mains input fuse has blown and there was the signs of a bit of a flashover near one of the main SMPSU IC's.

I have some new (wire in) fuses but I might try the old 60W 240V lamp across it first? The IC's are £10 for 5 from China, if I bother to go that far.

There is a bit of corrosion inside the case so I think water got in there somehow (they kept the scooter in one of those rigid plastic mini cabin things, along with an external double mains socket).

I'm not particularly bothered if it is dead as I may well replace it with a pair of Optimate 2's and charge both batteries individually via an extra port in any case.

So, I was wondering if anyone here has, had or maintains a Regatta mobility scooter and what you thought of them please?

Cheers, T i m

[williamwright]

There's a very simple thing to drill into scooter riders: "LET GO!" In other words, if it's all going wrong, release your grip and lift your hands off the controls. The scooter will stop dead.

Bill

[T i m]

We (Mum and I) had that conversation several times Bill (and practiced it) and in probably two hours of her running around on it, that was the first time she had been in that scenario (coming to halt on a down ramp, by a main road). [1]

The point being that on the flat and under 'normal' (non emergency / downhill stop) circumstances, our message was being considered. However, it's not those situations that are likely to rely on muscle memory and it was when that clicked in the problem happened.

It's similar to all those (typically older) people who put their cars though walls or into other cars in car park when you mix up the pedals on their autos. The lady opposite did in her auto car and damaged the front of her car and crushed her gas meter box. ;-(

As an aside, the scooter was a TGA Ultralight: (just an example picture from the net)

$_86.JPG

The first model was FWD and that made it *very* manoeuvrable so perfect for shopping or local pavement work. You might be able to see the throttle lever and in use, it does feel (and fall to hand) very much like a brake.

And whilst Mum does still have her marbles, she does sometimes seem to suffer some mental buffering, not the sort of thing we want when crossing a busy road. ;-(

Plus, the Regatta is bigger, 4 wheels, has inflatable tyres, has suspension and so likely to be better (more comfortable) over some slightly offroad terrain (park paths and towpaths etc). The downside is that it's f'in heavy so might go in one of the trailers (because they are low) if it needed transporting . It probably would go in the back of the Meriva, especially if you loaded the batteries separately (or there were 3 of you).

Cheers, T i m

[1] I had a Royal Enfield 350 Bullet (Madras) that had the foot controls (gear / rear brake) 'reversed' to what I was used to.

Eg, I was used to braking with my right foot (Lambretta scooter / Japanese / German motorcycles and cars).

So, whilst I was perfectly comfortable riding it under ordinary conditions, under emergency conditions I found myself applying the front brake and stamping it into 1st gear, rather than applying the rear / foot brake. Because I often had our daughter pillion, I sold it rather than take the risk.

[Dave Liquorice]

Seems odd that there is no grease at all in the suspension not even a smear here or there from initial manufacture. I'd try an find a sevice manual to see if that model/year is supposed to be greased or if they switched to sealed bearings but left the nipple. Either that and it's been stripped before and who ever did that didn't finish the job properly.

Don't know how "user friendly" Regatta are. As this is a mobilty scooter I wouldn't be surised if they refuse to talk to you and inisist that you take it to one of their "certified service depots".

Looks like the magic smoke got out from pins 5 & 6 of that chip and condensed on the board towards D14. I'd expect something else to have gone phut first to then take out that chip. Chopper transistors, mains side smoothing capacitors? Remember that a mains SMPSU has some nasty voltages flying about inside it.

[tabbypurr]

There are 2 basic choices.

4 wheels good, 3 or 5 wheels a total hazard. 8mph legally restricted to some users only, able to go on road. 4mph type u nrestricted, not road usable.

NT

[Jethro_uk]

Long experience has taught me to save my money and do it myself.

[T i m]

Indeed.

I've stripped and clean both sides now and they are just plain bushes Dave.

A possibility ... still, not good workmanship eh. ;-(

I also had to know the nsr wheel off from across the width of the buggy with a length of timber and a hammer as it was seized on. It looks like the osr had also been seized on but knocked off by a rock or directly by a steel hammer(judging by the damage done to the inside of the rim). ;-(

Yup, been there before with TGA.

Whilst you may well be right, couldn't have been water on the board (that started it)?

Yeah, thanks for the warning. If it's not the fuse, that IC or anything 'obvious' (if there is such a thing around SMPSU's), I'll go for another solution.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Ironically, we generally use 3 when we want stability on non flat ground ... tripod, milking stool etc. With this trike, most of the weight is over the two rear wheels so I can't think of a time where stability has been an issue.

Yes, both have the tortoise and the hare speed settings and his one has full indicators / hazard flashers, front light and rear lights etc. And a hooter and reversing bleeper. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Unless it requires tools or tech that I can't get access to, then I agree 100%.

Whenever I get a new (to me) machine I generally go right over it, checking, cleaning a lubing and in most cases, I don't have any issues with it from then on. Leave stuff unchecked (like these suspension components) and who knows when they may have worn out of seized etc.

Cheers, T i m

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

Fuses do not blow for no reason, so be careful shove a bulb in series with it when you put it on! Brian

[T i m]

So, I did the other side front suspension trailing arm and again, the only grease in there was what I put in the day before.

One rear (drive) wheel was rusted on, tapped that off with a length of wood and hammer across / under the buggy with the help of some penetrating oil.

Puncturesealed the tyres and inflated to 26 psi.

The Mrs rode it round to Mums (1km) and it seemed to run ok. We got Mum on it on a straight bit of pavement, covered the basic controls (repeated the 'if you get in an emergency, let go of everything' instruction) and did a further .5km when it just cut out and the overload had tripped. It seemed to be running freely, the motor was fairly warm so we gave it a few minutes and set off again. I did hear a bit of a light screeching noise (that wasn't there before) at what felt like motor RPM but we carried on into the park. Again, it did another .5km or so when it cut out again but this time the motor was very hot.

I tried to explain to Mum that if it started to feel 'slow' (for any particular throttle setting), that she shouldn't push on but let me know, but I don't think she heard, understood or remembered. ;-(

So, we left it for a good hour while the dogs ran about then she rode it home (ok this time) and the Mrs rode it back here (no screeching noise this time).

However, I suspect the electric brake is sticking but took the motor out just to 1) check that was running freely (it was) and 2) check the brushes (they were 'ok' but will get new ones [1]) and that 3) the transmission seemed free (it did).

I'll see if I can get the electric brake to bits tomorrow, see if there is anything that can be freed / etc. I think the micro switch works as when the brake is in the 'free' position it disables the throttle.

If it wasn't releasing properly that would sure explain the hot motor and tripping. ;-(

I think if I had been riding it I would have 'felt' it wasn't rolling / running freely.

In spite of those hiccups, Mum seemed very happy on it but we didn't really try any of the other stuff (getting it into her back garden down the side alley) because of the issues.

Cheers, T i m

[1] It could probably also do with a least a pair of rear tyres (deterioration of the sidewalls) but if she goes ahead with it, she will probably happily get a complete set and because they are split rims, we can keep one or two of them as spares and carry one and a tube when going further afield (with some tools / small pump), in case she does some real damage (rides over a broken bottle etc).

[tabbypurr]

From what little I've seen I doubt it's ever worth contacting a mobility de aler. Every other option will be much cheaper & usually better.

NT

[T i m]

I actually did so last night and I think that was the problem but haven't worked out how / why yet?

When you release the outer friction plate (3 small Allen screws on spacers) and you then find the friction plate, the inner friction plate (so like a conventional flywheel, friction plate, pressure plate) and then the coil and possibly a strong permanent magnet.

The mechanical override arm appears to release the 'pressure' / 'sandwich' on the friction plate (this must 'fail safe' (= brake on)) so in the non-override position it makes sense the brake is enabled. However, if you rotate the override to what should be the released position it doesn't release?

Now the strange thing is that all 3 screws were loose, and I wondered if someone has loosened them to give a bit of slack and allow it to sorta work? With them tight and the brake in the mechanically released position it feels solid. Slacken all 3 screws a couple of turns and the friction disk is free again?

I'm not sure if the main actuator is spring loaded or held together by a magnet and turning the screw in the middle doesn't do anything (it remains tight so whatever it's going into is also going round)?

I'll try it with 12V on it later to see what moves and by how much.

On the grounds I have little to lose at this point, I'm wondering if I could add some small washers to the tubular spacers (the screws are long enough) as that might be easier than skimming the friction plate thinner on the lathe?

Cheers, T i m

[Paul]

Fuses *do* blow for no reason.

Electrical loads have transient current flow level and steady state current flow level. There is more to selecting a fuse, than "just meeting steady state".

"I2t [I*I*T] is an expression of the available thermal energy resulting from current flow. With regard to fuses, the term is usually expressed as melting, arcing, and total clearing I2t. The units for I2t are expressed in ampere-squared-seconds [A2s]."

During the startup transient, the I2t can be quite large.

Slo-Blo fuses are typically used when you want a rugged response.

On a motorized appliance, all that adding a light bulb will do, is cause the bulb to come on full brilliance, while the motor remains stalled (shaft stall equals high current state).

I would start by "ohming" the load, to see if it reads a low number of ohms, or see whether it reads as a dead short. Due to semiconductors being present in the circuit, it may not be possible to get "honest" readings, depending on where you're probing. You could pull the motor connector and ohm the motor - but then that doesn't tell you anything about an upstream PWM thing (or whatever form the control might take). With switching semiconductors, some of those will fail in dead short state, and it ends up burning other, harder-to-replace, analog components (powdered core inductor, maybe a capacitor, the MOSFET itself burned to a crisp). Ohming that section might not tell you anything, whereas a visual inspection may already spot incinerated devices and a burnt smell.

I've had one semiconductor, where the failure was violent enough, the silicon die inside the device was blown off its anvil. And the tell-tale sign was a "clink" noise when the ON switch was pushed. That was the silicon die bouncing around inside the packaging. I never applied an ohmmeter to the device after removal - just shaking it and hearing something flopping around inside was enough.

I don't have an answer for every DIY circuit repair you attempt, but I can tell you that the light bulb method may not give a meaningful result. If there is a semiconductor control in the way, then behaviors can be quite non-linear. In the old days, you could pull some of the devices and put them on a curve tracer, but curve tracers were almost "out-of-style" when I got my first job after university. Later jobs, there just wasn't one of those on the premises. I think I've run the curve tracer, only once or twice in the lab. (You can get a shock off a curve tracer, be careful to not become part of the circuit.)

Paul

[tabbypurr]

Brian's a great teacher - invert everything he says and you can learnt lots.

NT

[Paul]

Is there any way to monitor "load amps" ?

That might give some indication of trouble.

"Mine will not calibrate perfectly either, it reads 0.2 amps with no current. I use it to measure my alternator output on my boat. As long as you need to see the difference between 30 and 50 amps and not 31 and 31.1, this can work for you. Also note it will show a decimal place at the far right for "reverse" flow, so make sure you have it turned the way you want it. EDIT: I have just come back from a 4 day trip and found this very useful to monitor alternator output. I also noted it drifts a lot - it seems to wander up to 0.5-0.8 amps at 0 actual current and wander back down to 0.2."

That meter runs off as little as 5V, and monitors DC loads up to 100 amperes, using a non-contact sensor. That means not placing anything in a high current path you're not comfortable with. Just monitoring the battery lead, would show the state of the whole thing.

That one does not use "jaws", so a single conductor must be shoved through the hole. Make sure the cabling+connector will fit through the aperture (19mm in the example) before buying. The sensor couples magnetic flux into the Hall chip next to the connector on the sensor. The larger the diameter of the sensor, the more magnetic material needed inside.

Regular Hall-based meters for this purpose, have sensors with a break in the material, giving a "jaws" design. The two halves of the magnetic material must meet properly for best results. A design without jaws, it's performance is that much more certain, as the magnetic circuit is fixed from a mechanical perspective. You won't need to jiggle it.

Circuits like that, the zero on them isn't all that good. The circuit can drift a bit. But we're not measuring fundamental physics constants here, so such errors are not an issue.

And you want the meter range, to cover the thing to be measured. If the range of currents always stayed below

10A, then a 100A version might be "set too high". Using your knowledge of battery amp-hours, and how far you can go on one charge, might give you an idea on the ballpark currents involved. And if the load happens to draw 100A when first moving, you can't damage that meter on overrange. Unlike an analog meter, there's no meter needle to "bend" if whacked overscale.

It needs a source of DC power to operate the meter, and measures DC amperes using the sensor.

Paul

[T i m]

Except in this case it's across the fuse on the input of a SMPSU and I think good advice and fairly common practice (especially with the charger off load)?

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Yea ... and funnily something I believe we have already done on that particular buggy (with a clip on ammeter), before I had an interest in the buggy and for / with it's previous owner.

I was designing 'occupancy detection' on a semi-automate model railway layout by putting a test pulse out on each of the segments of the layout, with the PWM signal fed through a Hall effect sensor and a section would be considered as occupied by reading more than 0 Amps. ;-)

So, it's possible this electromagnetic clutch-brake has been marginal for some time and was pushed past the point of functionality yesterday.

The fact that the three screws that hold the clutch-brake together were all lose suggest someone may have done that to allow some 'slack' in the assembly.

The friction disk smells like Bakelite and given it won't ever release mechanically (manual override) and that mech is working, I'm wondering if the friction disk may have swollen due to damp or somesuch?

Bottom line, I can either try to skim the disk (might be able to mount it on the lathe) or space the mech out slightly so that in the manually 'opened' position the disk floats freely (even if it doesn't when it should be electrically activated).

Cheers, T i m

[Chris Bacon]

My Mum had a mobility scooter... just a thought in case you have not considered it, what happens if it packs up when she's out on her own, if she will be going out on her own? You've done far more than most owners to it, and know your way around it, however it needs to be 100% reliable, or she needs a way of getting help, fast, if it stops.

[T i m]

That is a good question Chris and one I had considered ...

Another good question. One of the things I have learned about this Regatta scooter compared with a neighbours Shoprider is that you can't decouple the drive from the wheels. All the 'override' lever does is manually releases the motor brake so if it had an electrical failure you can push it but it doesn't freewheel very well.

On the Shoprider you could disconnect the drivetrain from the axle with a lever, overcoming any motor / electric-brake problems. This means that it would be 'easier' for a good Samaritan to get her home [1]. ;-)

Agreed, and that brings us to your first questions.

If Mum was on her own with it (and that's a big if atm), she would only be local and near a road, meaning we could get to her. We would arrange to stay local etc.

The first time the Mrs accompanied a elderly neighbour out on her Shoprider it broke down, I was called (and diagnosed water in the speed-controller[2]) and was able to get them and the scooter in the Meriva and back to her home.

I feel I could do the same with this one as it is a similar size, all be it that I would probably have to take the batteries out first, if I was to lift it in on my own.

If Mum was to go further afield, around our larger parks, the chances are we would be with her and we have the number of the Parks Patrols and Rangers who I'm sure would help if the scooter became sufficiently disabled that we couldn't push / pull it [3]. About the only thing that might do that (seeing how substantially built the chassis / rolling gear are (up to 25st)), is this motor brake seizing up and (as you say) I would now be able to remove it fairly quickly and with some basic tools (probably even just the Leatherman that is my daily carry).

With the worst case risk in mind, I'm not sure how much more reliable a new one might be?

I was looking after the web-logging and photo uploads for one of our BMW motorcade club members who took herself solo round-the-world.

She could have bought a new bike but chose to go on her own 20 year old one because it was 'known' to her and much less complicated than the latest offerings. This meant that if it did need maintenance, it was more easily found (around the world) by anyone with sufficient tools, no need for diagnostic gear etc.

I note that some of the newer mobility scooters are also 'digital' with the added diagnostic / repair issues that might bring, so if I was to trust my Mum on something I think I'd possibly prefer something I stood a chance of repairing outside of warranty?

All things to further consider though (including the idea of some sort of emergency 'get you home' system we could switch to in the event of the std electronics failing).

Cheers, T i m

[1] We have lived in the area most our lives (so that's 90 years for my Mum) and she and Dad were often out in the community so she knows an awful lot of people. ;-) [2] It turned out water was running a torturous path past the rain cover and into the speed controller that was mounted upside down, meaning the 'lid' filled up with water, eventually splashing onto the electronics when they went over the wrong bump. After recovering them I removed it, stripped it down, dried it off, sprayed it with WD40 and left it out to dry in her conservatory for a few days before re-assembling. 'Luckily' it worked fine afterwards. ;-) [3] Mum can walk a reasonable distance (it's feet problems rather than heart, lungs or balance), it's just that she would pay for it when she got home and the next day. ;-(