Mains power voltage drop to reduce usage?

[hubops]

If by brownout you mean a system voltage reduction < ? >

In North America, typical voltage reduction is: A 3% voltage reduction will lead to about a 1.5% reduction in total energy consumption (for a load of 20,000 MW this represents about 300 MW) A 5% voltage reduction will lead to about a 2.6% reduction (for a load of 20,000 MW, this represents about 520 MW .. see if this link below works < ? > : The paragraphs on Voltage Reductions are about half-way through.

The vast majority of customers will never notice. Your normal household supply of 124 drops to 118 - maybe - ... if the distribution transformer doesn't have a tap-changer to compensate for the grid / sub-transmission 5 % reduction. John T.

[Commander Kinsey]

BULLSHIT. I measured my fridge freezer, and it's old and inefficient. It's 70W.

One of the results from your first link actually said "The average refrigerator uses 725 watts of power"

I wonder if they're including the defrost heater.

[David Wade]

In Spain, where every one has to have a Smart Meter, there are three different price bands.

Dave

[Commander Kinsey]

In the UK the legislation dictates the power company should provide me with 230V +/- ***10%***

I actually get 241 to 256V, so sometimes out of limits. But they can't fix it without having someone at the other end of the street have too low a voltage. I'm next to the transformer. I use a UPS for anything fussy, which adjusts the voltage itself.

[Commander Kinsey]

I wasn't aware Spain was communist.

Do you really want a meter which can overread by a factor of 5, in particular on eco-stuff like LED lights!

[David Wade]

If the peak load reduction is needed over say an hour, then as it only takes a few minutes to boil a kettle or heat up a washing machine it will make no difference. You will simply have more kettles on at the same time. In fact it could make the peak load higher.

Assuming it takes five minutes when the voltage is full, and folks put their kettles on sequentially, you load is one kettle.

If it goes up to 6 minutes but we still want 12 kettles per hour then you need to start the second kettle while the first is still boiling, so the load goes up to two kettles for one minute...

If we want to reduce greenhouse emissions then gas needs to be more expensive.....

... you can make green electricity but not green gas, (well you can make green hydrogen but it uses lots more electricity)

Dave

[Vir Campestris]

Page 7. I went and looked.

That's very odd. My lights might possibly be voltage sensitive, but **** all else is.

If the kettle is using less power to boil water it will stay on longer.

Averaged over a lot of houses that would mean no change.

The heating is on a thermostat, and if the power output drops it will stay on longer (1). Giving the same power use, but spread differently.

Andy

[hubops]

They run it on the higher side of the range to reduce line losses.

some power quality limits here - just as an example :

John T.

[David Wade]

Well given its not invested in energy infra-structure so supply is often "flaky" makes it feel a bit like that at times.

Its worse than that, you pay for it on your bill. Mine costs 0.026667€ per day. I also have a contracted peak load. Exceed this and it cuts out. That costs 0.091474 Eur/kW/day and changing the value costs a fair amount.

Dave

[Commander Kinsey]

I thought this was done by radio? That's how my neighbour's heating was controlled.

[Commander Kinsey]

You're looking at not enough kettles. Think of it more simplistically. Every kettle will be on at a later time than it would have been, you spread the peak use over a longer period.

Could we stick to reality please?

Gas just creates CO2 and water, zero pollution.

[Commander Kinsey]

It's the spread they're after.

[Commander Kinsey]

In the good old days the UK was 250V. Fucking Europeans....

Too much info, quote the bit you want me to read.

[danny burstein]

[snip]

Do your teachers, especially physics, math, and social studies, know how dumb you're sounding these days?

[Commander Kinsey]

I've heard some parts of Italy only have a 3kW supply to each house! They have problems when buying 3kW kettles!

What is your peak load? Is this certain times of day only? I can draw 24kW, if that reduced I'd be f****ng angry.

[Commander Kinsey]

I'm 47. And the 5 factor is a fact.

[hubops]

Primary load is automatically shed - to maintain very stringent system frequency limits. The big thermal generators are very fussy about system frequency. " Small frequency deviations (e.g., 0.5 Hz on a 50 Hz or 60 Hz network) will result in automatic load shedding or other control actions to restore system frequency. " John T.

[Commander Kinsey]

Shedding what? I'm aware they ramp up the steam to speed them up if they get too slow.

[Cindy Hamilton]

Funny you should mention that. Our neutral broke in high winds yesterday. Both remaining legs seem to be well balanced.

[Martin Brown]

Not any more.

Apart from resistive loads and motors almost all other consumer items like TVs will simply draw more current at the lower voltage to maintain a constant power output. My PC and other office kit will quite happily run on 110v as will the LED lights. Incandescent lights are visibly orange on that voltage and a kettle takes forever to boil.

This happens in rural locations when one phase out of two supplying a village goes down and the remaining live phase is left taking the strain.