Lots of Odd Wiring Jobs on the Horizon. Should I become "Competent"?

[Colin Stamp]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of buying a bit of a run-down house. I'm hoping to move in in January. I'd guess the house is early '70s. The plan is to start by sorting out the house as it stands and then extend it later.

There's loads of stuff to do, but it's the electrics in particular that I'm wondering about at the moment. The system will need quite a few alterations, some urgently, before I'd call it usable. In the past, I've done stuff like this myself, but that was a while ago and now part P rears its ugly head. I seem to have four options for any part P stuff.

Option 1: Do it myself and don't tell anyone. I'm discounting this for now since I'm such a model citizen.

Option 2: Do it myself under building control. I guess this will work out really expensive since I'd be doing a lot of discrete jobs over a long time. Presumably I'd need to submit a building notice for each one. I'm in Milton Keynes, so I think the cost would be GBP 384 for each job.

Option 3: Become a member of one of the competent person schemes. At the moment, This option seems quite appealing, but I don't have any real idea what would be involved. I've looked at the websites of a couple of the schemes and there seems to be an exam, a joining fee and a yearly subscription. I think a couple of people on here have gone down this route. How much did it cost? Is the exam passable after just reading and understanding the on-site guide, or would I need to go on a "course"?

Option 4: Get someone else to do it. I really don't want to do this, but I guess it would be cheaper than building controlled DIY for a lot of the smaller jobs

Any thoughts or comments from anyone on all of this would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Colin.

[Tim Watts]

There's not a lot "they" will do if you ignore them. However the question may arise at house sale time - but again, if you anticipate that being a long way off (years and years) it is less of a concern.

You do not need to submit lots of BNA - one will do. There is no time limit until conpletion once you start. However, som arsey councils may insist on a "1st fix" "2nd fix" inspection - although that would really be their problem...

I would get some local opinion of that particular council - or ring them up and ask what their policy is - do not give your real name! If they answer is particularly stupid, consider reverting to your 1) above. If you do, make sure you do other work involving Building Control first - inspectors tend to notice new stuff.

You could - but it would be expensive to actually do the full membership as well as the courses. And NICEIC AFAIK want 2 sample jobs they inspect before they sign you up fully.

1) is your cheapest option if you feel happy to do so.

[ARWadsworth]

Well the BCOs may be along to correct me but I always thought that it was one charge no matter how long the job took.

[Terry Fields]

When I sold my house, the buyer's solicitors questionnaire included:

Q: Has any electrical work been undertaken since 2005 Y/N

A: Y

Q: Is a certificate available for this work Y/N

A: N

I doubt the buyers even read it.

Terry Fields

[Fredxx]

I would put all the alterations onto one building control notice for which the cost is fixed. You might have to pay for an electrical inspection afterwards.

Either that, or option 1. I'm not aware of anyone being prosecuted for not complying with Part P rules with an otherwise safe installation.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

If you need to persuade yourself not to do the work, so be it. If however, you are genuinely concerned about breaking a regulation which is plainly nonsense, and without it would love to do the work yourself and are competent, just do it.

[Tim Watts]

That suggests if your fill out an EIC or MWC *correctly* but without being qualified, then you answer the question truthfully and no-one will ever complain...

[YAPH]

Option 5: find a friendly sparks who's happy to work with you, specifying what's needed (e.g. circuit protection, conductor sizing etc) to meet your requirements; and testing and notifying it, with you doing the fun stuff like chasing, box-sinking, running cables and maybe connecting up accessories. That's for the notifiable work: you can DIY the rest. Advantage is you get someone who (if they're good) knows the implications of the regs and how to meet them, imparts to you some useful knowledge, and you get everything ticketted up and signed off.

I've been through the getting-qualified route and even with a degree in elec eng so I didn't have to do theory training, it's a lot of work and expense, and £400 a year to be on a competent persons scheme. Not worth it unless you're rewiring Buck House, I'd guess.

[ARWadsworth]

Anyone can fill a MWC in. It is not part P.

An EIC cert may or may not be part P.

[Tim Watts]

I was looking at a slight distinction in the question asked on the house sale forms. Technically the failure to declare notifiable work is a criminal offence, but (surprisingly) that is not what the PP form said.

If all they wanted was an EIC/MWC ("certificate")- and they appeared not to qualify that with an "EIC/MWC filled out by a certified person", if one were competant but not certified, one could fill out an EIC and answer the question favourably without bothering Building Control.

It would still be in breach of the "failure to notify" (which times out after 6 months as a crime anyway) but I was wondering if it would shut up the conveyencer (who probably does not understand the process well enough to delve deeper).

I had expected the seller's forms to say something like "has any notifiable work been done - and if so, do you have sign off certificates"

After all - correct me if I'm wrong, but if you (Adam) do NIEIC certificed work, although NICEIC notify building control, the client just gets a copy of the EIC/MWC?

Cheers

Tim

[NT]

Sounds like you'll be one of almost zero diyers that dont choose option 1.

NT

[John Rumm]

Indeed - I had a local BCO sign off a garage conversion job I helped a mate do after I gave him a MWC for the two modified circuits.

[Andrew Gabriel]

It's called f**k-off pricing, meaning they really don't want you to do this...

[John Rumm]

This is pretty much the universal choice it seems. As long as you do a decent job then it would seem to be pretty much risk free. (AIUI, prosecution would require a LABC to actually spend their limited budget taking you to court where the only contravention would be procedural issue of a failure to notify)

If going this route, just for the electrics, then you do one BN that is loosely worded, e.g. "rewire property as required".

The more realistic reason for going this route is when a BN is needed for other work like structural changes, or adding toilets etc. Then the wiring can be added on to the shopping list.

Probably not viable for a on off job from a cost point of view. As to what amount of learning would be required, that is really going to depend from where you start!

Possibly, but that is not what you would do if going route 2.

[Robin]

May I gently beg to differ? True f**k-off pricing is what my LA charge: a minimum of GBP 562.20 - yes, even for just one extra socket in a kitchen etc. The explanation (their word!) is that they have to inspect the work *and* pay an outside firm to test the work.

When asked how other London Boroughs manage to cope when charging around half the price they go strangely silent. And decline to answer questions about their charging methodology.

[Stephen]

I have heard of other DiY'er "finding" or "acquiring" a supply of old fashioned red and black twin and earth cable, using this to do the alterations instead of the new blue & brown T&E cable.

Come sale time, if they ask has any electrical work been done since 2005, depending on their scruples the seller says no. If anyone investigated further around the house, they would only find red & black T&E cable, so how could the investigator prove any new works was done since 2005, as the new blue & brown cable came in after 2005?......

Stephen.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Repairs and replacements don't come under PP, so you could simply claim any brown and blue cable was used to fix a fault.

[js.b1]

Brown & Blue came in before the SI2004 cutoff of 04-Apr-2005, so academic. Of course some cable is dated along its length, but you are permitted to change cable at any time due to any deterioration so again academic.

I changed all the upstairs power circuit from red-black to brown- blue... on a whim... :-)

[grimly4]

That's the one.

[John Rumm]

As has been pointed out many a time, the transition to harmonised colours straddled the instruction of part P. So you could use new before it, and old after it. So the only reason for attempting to source old colours are if you particularly don't want to mix them in an installation for some reason. They will do nothing to "prove" any fabrication about installation dates.

(you will note that many accessories do however have date stamps)

Much much simpler to just say "yes" and "no paperwork available".