loft conversion - i have read the FAQ and this is not in it!

Hi,

I am about to put down my new floor joists in between the original ceiling joists. Guidance diagrams I have seen from swansea BCO show A1 category loft insulation laid in the original 400mm gap between ceiling joists first, and nailed battens securing this to the ceiling joist - so their is no chance of fire ingress from downstairs. The new joists are suspended inbetween the old ceiling joistts, raised about 30mm to stop deflection cracking the ceiling.

my question is - is the battening totally necessary? could i run the inulation across the joists, overlaped? I really cant face all the extra work the battening will require - and i wont be able to use precut insulation, as i will need an excess to run up each side of the ceiling joists.

what have others found to be acceptable to BCO?

Reason for not applying for regs? my wife refuses to have stairs to this room - so no matter how well I buid the thing - it can't pass! My plan is to do everything as per the regs and the next owner then has the choice. The windows are in as per regs, so is the roof and insulation, now it comes to the floor...

many thanks

philip

Reply to
Philip
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Philip

If its up to the next owner to get approval, then it would help them greatly if you took photos during each stage. Saves having to take things up to see whats under there.

Reply to
DavidG

You will then have a major problem! When you come to sell your solicitor will ask you both to sign a declaration that all necessary permissions have been obtained and ask you to produce them. If you don't do so then your hosue will be effectively unsaleable.

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

I did it by installing the new joists first. Then stapling chicken wire between the new joists (stapled into the sides of the new joists) level with the top of the old ceiling joists. Finally stuffed isowool between the joists on top of the wire.

This was the way suggested by the BCO, and was passed by him as well.

Not as bad as battening, but still a PITA! I expect a hammer tacker type of stapler (like the carpet layers use) would be simplest. The chicken wire I bought on a rool, which I cut in half with angle grinder first to make two narrow rolls.

Reply to
John Rumm

Won't the restriction be that he won't be able to add the 'roof room' to the room count, ie it will be treated as a space with no purpose/function? He'll sell the house as three bed instead of four bed, or whatever.

Reply to
Peter Johnson

No the problem will be the lack of documetation.

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

and you can satisfy most buyers with a =A3200 insurnce policy. Which in most cases is worth absolutely nothing. But they'll want it anyway.

One older house can have no docs whatever, have nothing at all compliant with either modern BRs or the BRs that existed at the time it was built, but this house sells without a glitch. Yet the newer house next door, built to much higher standards in numerous ways, can fail to get its paperwork on more minor points, and it all becomes a big issue at sale time.

Strange world isnt it!

What does it all tell us?

NT

Reply to
bigcat

and you can satisfy most buyers with a £200 insurnce policy. Which in most cases is worth absolutely nothing. But they'll want it anyway.

Not likely these days becuase you will have to make a false declaration to the inurance company and the buyer. If you do do either, or both, and they find out then you can be in serious trouble. You may get away with but persoanlly I would not want the threat of a major damage claim and the possibility of prosecution for deception hanging over me. The OP must make his own mind up if he thinks the risks are worth it!

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

The spell checker failed again. Bugger!

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

Peter - I asked a specific question - having indicated I had read the Loft FAQ... Put my name in a search on this group and you will realise how long I have been considering these actions!

I have obtained a building notice for the position nad adequacy of the velux windows e.g. fire escape and uvalue - when the roof was replaced

2 years ago. I have used approved insulation for the roof, utilising breathable sarking (Klober). I have had a structural engineer check all my loadings for the new joists. I am putting in another building notice before fixing the joists. I am replacing all loft insulation with a1 class fire resistant loft insulation.

I have an electrician booked for the replacement of my 4 battery powered smoke alarms with a mains powered system.

I have taken digital photos at every stage. I have also drawn out plans on AO paper with all elevations etc.

The reason I am not submitting for regulations is as I have said, my wife refuses to put up with the disruption to the rest of the house that a stairwell will create - replacing all bedroom doors with fire doors etc. My understanding is that a fixed stair must be in place - so it would be a waste of =A3360 to proceed knowing we won't meet the requirements!

As for resale value - location, location, location - we regularly have notes put through our door buy folk privately wanting to buy on our street. We will not be moving for about 8 years anyway.

Regards

Philip

Reply to
Philip

Cheers John,

Just the sort of practical advice and shared experience I was looking for!

I wonder why flame ingress at the edges is not a problem your BCO is bothered about. I suppose the chicken wire will stop loss of fire barrier if a bit of ceiling fell down - good thnking.

Philip

Reply to
Philip

Thanks David,

Photos are in the bag - even some videos. I made my own QT panoramas by attaching the digital camera to my drill chuck and slowly revilving it! worked a treat once I borrowed someones Makita - my Bosch did not have a speed low enough!!!

I will be posting a website of the project as it has been my "hobby" for the last 3-4 years. It is a shame the current legislation is so prescriprive.

Philip

Reply to
Philip

Thanks David,

Photos are in the bag - even some videos. I made my own QT panoramas by attaching the digital camera to my drill chuck and slowly revilving it! worked a treat once I borrowed someones Makita - my Bosch did not have a speed low enough!!!

I will be posting a website of the project as it has been my "hobby" for the last 3-4 years. It is a shame the current legislation is so prescriprive.

Philip

Reply to
Philip

I am sorry if you were offended by my attempt to help you. I hear what you say Philip but with respect you have missed the point. Because of increasing paranoia, not to mention various court decisions, about being sued by clients, solicitors are becoming ever more cautious of what they will, or will not, allow their clients to do when buying or selling a property. As a direct result of this an increasing number of people are finding that their houses have become unsaleable without considerable expenditure because they thought they could get away without planning permission or building control approval. I can't imagine your wife will be very pleased if you end up in that situation yourselves. Still it is your decision!

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

Read that back Peter,

solicitors... allow... clients.

what ever happened to the customer is always right? No solicitor of mine will ever "allow" me to do anything. I will pay for his advice and the privelige of not taking it! You don't even need a solicitor to buy and sell a house!

The whole concept of DIY is in some way counter to your way of thinking. Consult your solicitor - he may not allow you to put that shelf up because it might fall on someones head, or worse, the next owner may sue when his =A3250,000 ming vase falls of it. Much safer to get a time served joiner to do it - a member of the federation of master craftsmen.

Philip

Reply to
Philip

The bulk of the protection is provided by the plasterboard and skim underneath. In fact the BCO said I only need add extra protection if the PB was less than 1/2". Since it was 9mm plus skim, I did. (He did later mention that it may have been required anyway even if the existing ceiling had been thicker, so as to meet the new acoustic performance regulations).

Reply to
John Rumm

Now there is a whole section I did not think of adding to the Power Tool FAQ ;-)

That should be fun... might do mine when its all done. ;-)

Reply to
John Rumm

It sounds like you have done most of the building notice stuff you need anyway. It may be worth looking into stairs / ladders and the approvability of them since the rules are relaxed for loft conversions. Space saver stairs etc. are allowed for example. Perhaps a phone call to the local BC office as a "general sounding out" may be worthwhile? You may find you can do it all by the book anyway.

Probably no need to replace the existing doors. The new doors in the conversion will need to be 30 min rated fire doors, but the existing ones to habitable rooms (i.e. not the bathroom) just need a self closer added if they open onto the main escape route from the third storey.

(you already have dealt with the other main fire protection requirements of escape windows and mains powered interlinked smoke alarms)

Also, if you complete the work in the loft first, then sorting out the stairwell is actually not that messy or disruptive in most cases. About a days work to cut through and tidy up. Then you can measure up carefully and make up some suitable stairs (I made mine from scratch - took about three days including fitting - or you can get them made to order for between 500 and 800 quid depending on what you need), Finally adding the ballustrading and stuff is another couple of days work and mess. Should be tolerable for even the most stroppy SWMBO (especially given the value it would add to the property) ;-)

The phone call would find out for free!

Reply to
John Rumm

Any good solicitor will offer very strong advice to his client. If a client insists on making a false declaration then the solicitor would almost certainly refuse to act further for him.

That would be rather stupid would it not? If you are so sure you know what you are doing then why pay for a solicitor?

Indeed. But look on the cost as insurance if something goes wrong.

Far from it. It is a question of recognising that their are limits to ones own ability.

Now you are getting into fantasy land

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

Who said anything about a false declaration? I don't need the law as guidance on what is right and wrong - I have my own moral code. In many cases, this precludes actions that solicitors, accountants, etc may advise.

Doing stuff to my property and making any potential buyer aware of this before purchase is perfectly acceptable to me. If they want it - they will buy it. they can always remove the chipboard flooring - cheap and cheerful solution.

Philip

Reply to
Philip

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