Thickness of ceiling joists in loft

[Mike Mitchell]

My ex-council house semi is basic in design, but built like the proverbial brick "outhouse". Since all the internal walls, ground floor and first floor, are of solid masonry, the joists in the loft seem really strong with no discernible spring when one steps along one. The joists are now partially boarded over, but I was wondering what a brand new house is like in the loft. In a modern house, the walls are usually stud type, i.e. not load-bearing. So how strong are the ceiling joists in the loft in a modern house? How to they stay up without load-bearing walls to support them?

MM

[IMM]

Only on the upper levels usually and around the downstairs toilet.

They are ruff trusses. Each truss is all one piece and spans the width of the house. The internal walls usually have a wood piece here and there from floor to roof trusses giving extra mid way support on some.

Some modern house are very well made and very sturdy. The problem with older houses is they lack insulation and cost a fortune to run.

[Owain]

"Mike Mitchell" wrote | My ex-council house semi is basic in design, but built like the | proverbial brick "outhouse". Since all the internal walls, ground | floor and first floor, are of solid masonry, the joists in the | loft seem really strong with no discernible spring when one steps | along one. The joists are now partially boarded over, but I was | wondering what a brand new house is like in the loft. In a modern | house, the walls are usually stud type, i.e. not load-bearing. | So how strong are the ceiling joists in the loft in a modern | house? How to they stay up without load-bearing walls to support | them?

The ceiling joists in a modern house have very little weight to carry (only a plasterboard ceiling and some insulation). Their main purpose is to stop the ends of the roof (and walls) spreading outwards, so they are held in tension which helps stop sagging, and they will often be diagonally braced to the rafters, both supporting and being supported.

Owain

[Mike Mitchell]

Can one walk on them though?

MM

[troubleinstore]

Give me an ex-local authority house anytime. They are BUILT, not like todays rubbish. Yes ok, they may not be upto today's modern insulation standards but in 5 years time, the modern houses will probably not meet the standards of the day either.

[adder]

In my flat the beams are maybe a little less than 2x4s spaced 600mm or so apart, and they span 18 feet. They form the bottom part of a braced "A" frame structure that is the roof. There's a single stud wall in the middle which I no doubt provides a little bit of support. The beams can support my weight but there's no way I could make the space into a liveable space like that. I'm sure over time the ceiling would sag. Tncidentally the builders put down a length of chipboard flooring, to to the electrics or lay the insulation or something but they couldn't be bothered to lift the board up (which isn't nailed or anything) to put insulation under it! That's how I know the ceiling can suport my weight 'cos I've been adding extra insulation recently.

[IMM]

he obviously knows nothing about this, yet comments as if he is an authority. Some mothers....

[IMM]

All that cold and damp! Oh no! If you want a modern well built solid house they are there. You find them and buy one, or build your own.

[Huge]

Yes. Or at least, I can in my loft, which is of the "million matchstick" construction described. "Walk" is a bit strong, since I cannot stand up in there.

I much prefered the loft in my house in Barnet which was held up by

6 pieces of wood.

[Christian McArdle]

Frequently, even in modern houses, there is a masonry wall in the middle that rises to loft level (there was in my last house). Also, don't assume that stud walls are non structural. Many houses are built entirely from structural stud walls without any masonry in sight (except maybe a decorative brick shell).

Christian.

[Lurch]

It usually depends on the size of the house, larger modern houses have a brick wall in the middleish upstairs whereas a smaller house, (below a decent sized 3 bed), have the upstairs entirely of paramount, or occasionally studwork. That's the way all the houses I've wired in the last few years have been, and there's at least a good few hundred, in different areas, by different house builders. They all build houses exactly the same. ..

SJW A.C.S. Ltd.

[Mal]

The problems with most modern houses are that the ceilings are too low and the rooms too narrow. No dount all thanks to ergonomics - the science of making things just too small to be comfortable.

Today's obsession with environment (only the outdoor environment, mind, which is not where most people spend their time) means a lack of fresh air and higher levels of pollutants indoors. When I lived in a new flat, I felt like I was always getting a cold (that bunged up feeling). As soon as I moved to a draughty old victorian house with single glazing and open fires, I felt much healthier.

Stuff the heating costs, health is more important than some eco nonsense.

Mal

[Tony Bryer]

The roof is usually constructed of trussed rafters - see

for typical shapes - which bear on the external walls only: any support given by internal partitions is purely incidental. They are perfectly strong enough for the design loads but no stronger than required

- computer design minimises the sizes of the timber members and connecting plates. Generally you would expect the ceiling ties to be capable of taking a distributed load of about 0.75kN/m2 or

15lb/ft2

[IMM]

I agree with that 110%. We are more concerned with keeping boring green fields than caring for people.

Downlighters and walls light make the ceilings taller. Ventilation is easy to install into any house or flat.

[IMM]

That is changing fast. TJI "I" beams are now being commonly used. A smaller house with a short truss span does not require mid point support.

[Peter Taylor]

IMM wrote

Are you the Pot or the Kettle?

[IMM]

I just "know" that's all.

As I said...Some mothers....

[Mal]

Making each room a foot taller won't affect land useage. Adding a couple of feet in each direction to the rooms could be done too, with a minimal reduction in the number of houses on a plot (just put them closer together if needs be). That's all it needs to make most new homes massively more liveable - and it wouldn't add much to the building cost either.

The problem is not lack of land, but lack of regulations specifying minimum dimensions for new builds.

No, it's taller walls that make ceilings higher. Downlighters just make them brighter. I'll still scuff my head on a dangly light fitting, no matter how well lit the surrounding walls.

No ventillation that would pass any eco-test is as good as my draughty windows and open fireplaces for keeping the air fresh. Inefficient, I know, but I feel better for it.

Mal

[IMM]

Very true, and using basements won't either.

Or just give more land. Over development is rife,and Two Jags gave into the Countryside Alliance and is insisting on tighter development. Ludicrous.

very true.

Very true. There is not lack of land, it is "available building land" that is the problem. the will not release it.

Physically, yet mentally how the room is arranged and coloured can make a room seem twice the size.

Dimmers can take care of that.

Don't ha have dangling lights. I don't. The ceilings appears much taller.

A Vet Axia unit in the loft blowing into the hall, via the ceiling makes all the difference. Easily retrofitted.

[usenet]

If the ceilings appear 'taller' you must be walking on the walls.