Linda Barker on Working Lunch

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Ian F." saying something like:

I can tell you're a pedantic wanker. How's that?

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Derek Geldard saying something like:

Oh dear; how could he sink cello?

There's actually a show on the BBC at the moment called Cowboy Traders although I don't know if they feature any panty sniffers on it.

Fred X

Ian

I think it's where people buy old photographs of Roy Rogers, The Lone Ranger and so on, and then auction them for charity.

Ian

She of all people (or was it Carol Smiley) should warn people not to try difficult tasks like putting up a shelf after one of those telly programmes wrecked someone's collection of much loved teapots when the whole lot came crashing down.

Owain

And given the person speaking.

Owain

I don't think she actually designs the 'serfas', but I still wouldn't have one in my 'herm'.

Owain

Or you want a discount if you let the chap in the wife's unmentionables.

Owain

We are very rapidly approaching the slippery slope where people just will not even be able to think for themselves. I recently had to put a plug on an appliance for someone who did not know how. Amazingly, he told me that it was covered in some lesson, "module"? he did at school but he had forgotten it as it was not part of getting an exam result.

The fact that the BBC propagates this sort of rubbish on behalf of this overbearing government, is proof enough to me that things are going to get worse, a lot worse.

Nice weather today!

Steve

Indeed, although some wear that as a badge of pride!

Twas Carol IIRC. Some set of shelved suspended (briefly!) from wires.

I've got some shelving suspended from wires - taking really quite a heavy load of books. OTOH I've also got a clue, and chose the wires and fixings appropriately :-)

Key is not Pro or DIY, but competent. For example Linda Barker's wallpaper often has incompetently made edging making it impossible to hang without gaps.

So not all Pro's or DIYer's are competent. In the words of Dirty Harry, a (wo)man has got to know their limitations.

ELEC - Statuatory Instrument (SI) 2006 replaced 2004

That defines notifiable and NON-notifiable work.

- DIY can quite happily a) do non-notifable work AND b) do notifiable work with inspection.

- DIY must do work to BS7671 (or named standard), whether they notify or not

Pro's of course can

- 1) not do it to any standard it merely has to be safe in their view

- 2) have a registered company but unqualified, incompetent staff with just a QA spark who turns up to eyeball & collect the money

- 3) have 5-day trained Domestic Installers rather than proper C&G

A Pro is no-longer a Pro when he bawls over a neighbour's fence or wholesaler that the law is SI2004, he becomes a cowboy with spurs - and needs the fuse removing rapidly.

GAS - Gas work that is remunerated is illegal unless registered

DIY should do no work whatsoever unless competent for the EXTENT of that work AND that includes right materials, right method, right inspection and testing (combustion analyser for boilers) AND as much, knowing what they don't know.

DIY conversely can just go and buy Viper, Tolleys and then a) define what they know and b) what skills are sufficient. That may limit them to turning on a gas appliance as a consumer. It might limit them to capping an appliance off.

Pro should do not work whatsoever unless competent for the EXTENT of that work - because Gas Safe has specific qualifications for each task and is specific to the actual individual rather than the company.

Pro's of course can...

- 1) fail to sleeve thro the wall

- 2) fail to ensure any of 11 outside end-feed fittings had a continuous bead of solder with leaks were detectable from 9 (leaking for 8yrs by that point)

- 3) push 8mm pipe into a 15mm elbow and "fill-in" with solder

- 4) fail to sleeve thro the wall again

- 5) fail to fit a gas tap to allow appliance isolation

- 6) fail to locate the appliance at a height which permits a gas tap

- 7) deliberately not fit a gas tap so inspection leaks can be blamed on appliance vs pipe

- 8) locate an appliance contrary to manufacturers instructions

- 9) physically fix the appliance with screws much deeper than the browning so it is effectively supported by the flu tabs & pipe

This is the old British Gas where "everyone trusted and nobody looked". Thankfully Transco ACS do in fact look and as he put it "spends all my day wiping the arse of previous gas fitters who shouldn't have been let loose with Lego".

Both DIY & Pro can do poor work. The worst mentality is when a nation hands over responsibility to essentially self-policing bodies because Pro's very rapidly become cowboys because they can assume all work and dis-assume responsibility as Corgi so demonstrated. Ireland has no Corgi/Gas Safe yet has no statistically significant different in incidents (indeed over a 10yr period I recall it was less, but that may be due to other factors rather than DIY being particularly better or Pro's more competent). Too many gas people ended up with poor practical skills & good multiple choice skills. Standard of soldering should be job #1 yet is often really pretty shabby as well as the understand of *why* something is done like it is, *why* it matters and the *science* behind it. Same goes for 5-day DI, who simply do not know enough yet stand bawling at C&G qualified people "they are wrong" only to have a Hilmor shoved up their ass. Following a manual is not enough, hence DIY gas work even with the right manuals will always be virtually non- existent (and is, most common from HSE is "capping a pipe". Most common error of old BG is "no compression fittings are allowed inside" (even if accessible), which is useful because it got a meter moved outside for free in those days.

What surprises is the no-one has mentioned the obvious - the BBC has no interest in DIY shows, only "Cowboy & DIY-SOS". Much DIY work is of a far higher standard than Pro, but some is atrocious.

If someone is not competent for the extent of the work, then obviously get someone in. Now, who wants to consider kitchen fitters and what they do a) themselves b) to elec & gas after the others have left the room... because that... truly... can be horrific.

NuLabour recreated the ministry of silly walk men-in-brown-overalls, one to hold a screwdriver, one to write a HIPS, one to do an efficiency assessment with moronic software & moronic lack of understanding, one for window tax making it uneconomic to use maintainable DIY-built wood windows at the expensive of vast quantities of DG landfill which will merely increase with future secondary glazing requirements (gap) and sustainable construction (wood, acacia, gov't monitoring cameras).

Hopefully the next bunch remove the ball-&-chain with a flag painted on it so as to prevent it being questioned by peer pressure. BR should hopefully be reduced to a set of end-results, since the present lot is merely creating a lot of opportunity for rushed-to-market rubbish products.

You of course have never done anything wrong, embarrassing or inappropriate, but I doubt whether the best course of action when caught out is to be shown on national TV as 'entertainment' rather than be dealt with privately or involving the law.

People are capable of moving on but being in TV or youtube archives for evermore makes that more difficult.

Apologies for the (obvious) typos :-)

Sadly I very much doubt it. While some of them at least understand the costs and benefits of regulation, the political reality is that little would be heard from those (such as you) who would benefit from deregulation and a lot would be heard from those with a vested interest in screaming "danger! danger!". Add in the flak which would come when[1] someone died as a result of a DIY'd job - with the Minister who introduced the new legislation pressed to resign - and it just doesn't look to me to be a proposition any Minister could buy.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see any way out of the mess unless and until we get an electorate which is better educated on such matters. (So it looks to me a close call whether we'll get there before the sun goes red giant.)

Tough s*it. If you haven't done anything wrong, then there's nowt to worry about.

We've all done something wrong and embarrassing, but going into someone's home and doing it is an entirely new league.

The trouble with (most) tradesmen these days is they have no respect. For the customers home, or for themselves. They'd much rather sit in the van in a car park and drink tea whilst "getting some parts", or get off home early and bodge the work. This is the sole reason why I do as much work in my home as is possible.

Steve wibbled on Thursday 24 September 2009 17:51

Rapidly approaching?...

At least a few here will be ready to front the revolution due to still having intact braincells. Count me in when it happens - till then I'll be down the pub...