LED downlighters - 12V or 240V?

[Lobster]

Think I've finally convinced myself that I'm going to swap over from halogen downlighters to LED ones.

Forgetting for a moment whether downlighters a fundamentally a good idea or not (for various reasons these are staying, end of!) my question is whether to go for 12V or 240V ones?

My current halogens are 12V, but AFAICS I'll still still need to replace the PSUs for some LED-compatible ones. On the plus side, I can re-use the existing downlighters; they are quite a bit larger than modern ones (12V or 240V) so replacing them would be something of a ball-ache in that I'd have to *reduce* the size of the holes in the ceiling.

So, is there any compelling reason to swap to 240V?

Thanks

[ARW]

The need not to use a transformer/LED driver is a bonus for the 230V LED lamps.

All you need is some GU10 lampholders, some GU10 LEDs and to remove the 12V transformers.

[Lobster]

Sure, I get that - but the need to fill in and recreate the holes in the ceiling really stacks against the need to buy new transformers... what I was getting at was the pros and cons of the two systems *in practice*, ie once they are fitted, and up and running...

[Andy Bartlett]

The 12V ones will be slightly more efficient. LED lights are driven from a constant current source, so some type of voltage stepdown system will be needed in the 240V version before the constant current regulator - or else it will dissipate huge amounts of power (Power = volts * amps etc ....). Any type of voltage reducer (transformer or capacitive series element) will dissipate a small amount of extra power compared with the 'straight in' low voltage type.

Andy

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

Not that I can see. Just use 12V with your new PSUs and as time goes by, the LEDs you get will only improve anyway. If you decide to go 240V, you'll have to run new cabling, so that could be an extra pita.

[robgraham]

One comment i would make which is unrelated to the 12/240v query, is that LED downlighters do tend to have a narrow beam and less overspill of light. I did a straight replacement for SES40 bulbs and had to put in an extra one in my kitchen area to get adequate coverage round the sink and cooker.

Rob

[ARW]

I thought you were keeping the existing downlights and just changing the lamps.

[ARW]

Or a constant voltage source.

[Lobster]

Sorry maybe I waasn't clear then. I'm definitely keeping *downlighters* as such, ie as a form of lighting (SWMBO has told me so); it's a case of whether to go to 12V LED (ie which would mean keeping existing downlighters and just swapping lamps and transformers) or to 240V LED (meaning swapping lamps and downlighters, plus the ball-ache aspect of having to form smaller holes in the ceiling). From what I'm reading there doesn't seem to be any justification for going 240V?

[ARW]

Why does swapping to 230V mean you have to buy new downlighters?

You just replace the transformer with

and fit 230V lamps.

Or am I missing something?

[ARW]

Why would he have to run new cabling? None of the 9000 12V downlights I have fitted would need new cabling to convert to 230V

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'm not convinced. LEDs are basically current driven DC devices, and producing that low(ish) current from 240v within the bulb requires electronics which ain't going to have much in reserve. Starting out with low voltage would make them less complex.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Problem is, you are doing it all at higher current, which potentially makes for larger losses. I don't know which is better in practice, but I think there's more choice in the 240V space in terms of retrofits.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

I mean the cabling from tfrmr to lightheads - all the 12V wiring. Most of that I've seen I certainly wouldn't trust it on mains.

[ARW]

That would not apply to the ones I fitted.

[Lobster]

No you're not - I am!

Hadn't realised that you could convert 12V ones to 240V ones so easily - pretty obvious with hindsight I suppose! So that's good - either option is equally on the table. Still not sure which to go for TBH!

[ARW]

As I only fit the 230V LEDs (unless it's under cupboard/specialist stuff) then I can offer no opinion as to which is your best way forward. I just gave you the option to fit either lamp in your downlights.

[mick]

I would say no. Swap the lamps and change the electronic transformer for a suitable LED driver. Job done. That way you've no worries about cable voltage rating. If you want them dimmable then make sure you fit a dimmable driver.

[ARW]

Would you like dimmable LED lamps with your order?

[mick]

Or try these:

:)