Leaking shower

After having to deal with a badly installed and leaking shower for several years we finally decided to replace it.

A raised tray, flexible upstand strip around the tray (just in case...), good quality 8mm corner rectangular enclosure with sliding doors, and wetwall panels on the walls.

I removed the old shower, tray, enclosure, and the plasterboards from the walls behind, so the installer was left with stud walls into which to screw new plasterboards, and fit everything.

The instructions for the installer were simple: do a tidy job, but most importantly, make sure that the new shower would not leak!

Unfortunately I was away the day that he was here last month, so nobody really kept an eye on him, and surprise, surprise, the new shower is leaking...

I had a close look at the leak and noticed that it does not look as if he fitted it properly:

I expected the plasterboard to be cut just above the sealing strip, as per the instructions, to allow the tray and the strip to be pushed under it and leaving the wetwall panels resting on the tray. Alternatively, if the corner is 100% square (it is not - a few mm off), then push the tray and strip against the plasterboard, still leaving room for the wetwall to overlap the tray. He decided to run the plasterboard to the floor.

Photo of the way (I believe) that it should have been fitted:

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and this is what he did:

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(The vertical silver strip is the wetwall trim) Happy to send more photos if needed.

So you can see that because of his bad planning:

- he had to force/rip the sealing upstand to get the wetwall panel into place, deeming it useless.

- the wetwall is completely in the air with no overlap at all between it and the tray, leaving a minimal point of contact between them to try and keep the water in (silicon)

The water, I believe is leaking because he did not put any/enough silicon at the point where the enclosure profile meets the tray and the wetwall at the bottom. Water the run along the track at the bottom collects there, and with no upstand to keep it inside the enclosure it drips on the floor outside.

When we asked him to come and see/repair this, he simply stopped communicating altogether...

My questions:

  1. Am I correct that it was not fitted properly? i.e. that any professional in the field will agree that this is unacceptable (you get where I am going... ;-)
  2. Is there an acceptable solution to the leak? i.e. something that will keep the water in for, say, 10 years? We bought quality materials, left the "professional" to do his job in peace, and paid him fairly, so we are not looking for a bodge job...

Alternatively, if no acceptable solution exists, then we intend to pursue him to recover all our costs (inc materials) so that we can pay someone else do to the job properly, so this is my sanity call to make sure that you pros agree.

PS: I know, I should have done it all myself - it would have taken much longer, but it would have been done right. I was too busy at the time, and we had a herd of them coming to stay over Christmas and New Year a few days later...

Reply to
JoeJoe
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Sounds like you have an action against him if you think its worth it bothering.

Might save some other poor victim from his ineptitude. . Get it reinstalled properly complete with pictures of old and use as evidence when claiming the cost back. Of course if he is not an honest person he might just disappear. Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

Our thoughts too. Luckily we can afford to re-do, but that is not the point.

I don't think he will , but he may not pay - win or lose. At least I'll make it public, he'll have a CCJ against him, and I'll let Trading Standards know.

Reply to
JoeJoe

and can pass the debt to a debt collector. R the fitting, I can't make head nor tail of the 2nd pic. A clear diagram would help. And what is plasterboard doing in a shower?

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

The plasterboard is the wall which would extend down to the floor in the majority of cases where a shower is installed in an existing bathroom. I doubt if any fitting instructions say hack off a couple of inches of the wall so that the shower base fits under the existing wall.

From what I've seen with waterproof wet-boards fitted to an existing wall there is either a plastic U section seal that fits at the bottom and behind the lower edge of the wet-board and extends forwards into the top edge of shower base or the board sits on top of the shower tray and a bead of silicone seals it. Where a U section seal is used it first filled with silicone sealant and the board slid into it before the sealant cures.

Reply to
alan_m

I'm not sure that either method of fitting is correct. I assume that the rubber "up-strip" comes with the wet-boards and so what does the manufacturer recommend as a fixing.

Possibly the strip needed to be attached to the existing wall above the level of the base of the wall-board and then bent under the wall board so that the notch in it fits into the front face of the wall board. The the rubber forming a seal between the wall-board and the shower tray.

Perhaps something like

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Reply to
alan_m

Try this one in conjunction:

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If everything is installed correctly, then the plasterboard should never come into contact with water - it is behind a wetwall panel (single sheet, not grouting, cracks, etc) and above the sealing upstand and the tray.

Reply to
JoeJoe

I am 100% sure that this is not the case. I bought the strip, and this is how it should be installed (this is the product itself):

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It also states specifically

He simply didn't realise, when positioning the tray, that there is a gap between the wall and the tray that was too large due to the corner not being square, so tried to force the wetwall into position later, detaching the strip in the process (it takes some real force - the glue is incredibly tough).

Reply to
JoeJoe

The instructions that came with the shower tray:

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See bottom left of the last page. Similar instructions for the sealant upstand.

If the corner is 100% square (or very close to), then you'll get away perhaps with simply pushing the tray against the wall.

If it is not square, as it is in my case, and/or you need to allow for a

3-4mm sealing strip then removing the plasterboard immediately above the tray makes it much easier to position the tray. This way you ensure that the tiles or wetwall rest on the tray. I have seen at least 4-5 shower trays fitted this way - I used to do some old Victorian flat-flipping in the past where nothing is square, and my joiner always did that to get over it.
Reply to
JoeJoe

There's a pretty long thread about this on ulm. Brian, what you have written above is a masterly summing up of the whole thread. :-)

Also, the thread on this NG is a pretty interesting example of how difficult it is going to be for the OP to explain to a judge exactly what is wrong with the current installation - apart from the fact that it leaks, of course. Bear in mind that the posters on this NG have probably installed a shower or two in their time, whereas the judge won't have.

If the installer turns up and defends the case (and perhaps lies his head off), there's a possibility that the OP could lose. He's only got to say that the plastic panels which the OP supplied were unsuitable for the location, and the judge may decide in the tradesman's favour.

What would probably clinch it for the OP is a decent expert's report, but that will be quite costly, and quite reasonably the OP doesn't want to throw more good money after bad.

Reply to
GB

Totally agree with everything you said above - spot on!

I am prepared to risk taking it further for the sake of around £100 for court fees + around £70 for the bailiffs should he not pay. I can also try and bring an oldish-looking (i.e. experienced) installer with me to court as an expert witness (who will get the job of replacing the shower later - but the judge doesn't have to know that... ;-) )

What I am really after is a sanity check from the experts here before I decide whether to proceed:

- Is it really so badly fitted as it appears to me? i.e. minimal point of contact between tray and wetwall, and ripping upstand in the process whilst there was no need to do it that way?

- Is there an acceptable LONG-TERM solution that does not involve ripping the whole thing up and starting again?

Also, what sort of an expert do I need to bring with me to court?

Reply to
JoeJoe

Following the advice we received here we took the cowboy to Small Claims Court. 5 appointments, and 1.5 days of hearing in total. A very impressive QC presiding.

Brought no witnesses, expert or otherwise, as didn't want to throw good money after bad. Instead I brought plenty of photos and videos, SMS transcripts and emails as advised here, and it also helped that all my phone calls are recorded automatically.

Cowboy lied throughout about everything.

Judge agreed 100% with all our claims about the sub-standard quality of the work. despite being advised by CAB and Trading Standards that we would not received the cost of labour that we had paid - win or lose, he was so unimpressed with him that he decided to award us that as well. Also received part of cost of materials (we purchased everything) + all expenses + court costs + something for inconvenience. We are only a couple of £00's overall. Much more than we thought that we would get.

Very lengthy process, but it was all worth it in the end, even just so that we can see the cowboy's face being told repeatedly that he was a liar.

Now to try and get the money from him...

Reply to
JoeJoe

You can always sell the debt. I'd just tell him you will if he doesn't pay, and that will considerably increase his costs.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

On 31/10/18 00:03, JoeJoe wrote: would get.

Tell him to watch "The bailiffs are coming" on iPlayer.

Reply to
Jeff Layman

I'm surprised he hasn't followed so many other sole traders and set up a limited company. I continue to be puzzled why politicians get so little pressure to tackle the way the explosion of micro-companies, while driven by tax and NI benefits, also gives them a cheap and easy way to walk away from debts.

Reply to
Robin

Yes this is where he winds up the business and you find all the real assets are in his wife's name and they start up again using a new name. They normally make a small payment to' good will' or take the piss depending on your viewpoint. Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

Because it allows politicians to go on TV and say how many new companies have been formed in the UK since last year "isn't the country doing well" all of these new business start ups.

Reply to
Chris B

He is a sole trader (or at least definitely NOT a limited company). He is not registered for VAT.

If he doesn't pay then I can at least make sure that:

- A link to some unsavoury comments about his business will be near the top of the 1st page on Google for anyone searching for a trader of his type around here.

- Trading Standards get the full details of the case (I will probably do that anyway)

- I give him a few very unfavourable reviews on the find-a-trader-type websites that he is on (again, I will probably do that anyway).

This will cost him substantially more in the long run than simply paying what he was ordered to.

But then again, I don't think that he is smart enough to realise that.

Reply to
JoeJoe

You never will.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Because directors of failed companuies are ofte disallowed from being directors of ANY company,.

Its muych easier to be a sole trader, and go bankrupt every few years

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

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