Laser printers bugger you up?

On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 15:42:14 UTC+1, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

So we'll never know is that it, but remmeber data wasnt; being collected for tobacco or asbesdos, it;s only when people started dying from what was then unknown that data started to be collected.

and you're an idiot and as expect4ed snipped the evidence.
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On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 17:02:29 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:

The ancient Romans used asbestos and knew it was dangerous. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos#Early_uses
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On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 10:34:56 -0700 (PDT), harry

"While Pliny or his nephew Pliny the Younger is popularly credited with recognising the detrimental effects of asbestos on human beings, it has been said that examination of the primary sources reveals no support for either claim".
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Chris

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wrote:

The term asbestos is traceable to Roman naturalist Pliny the Elder's manuscript Natural History, and his use of the term asbestinon, meaning "unquenchable".[1][6][17] While Pliny or his nephew Pliny the Younger is popularly credited with recognising the detrimental effects of asbestos on human beings,[19] it has been said that examination of the primary sources reveals no support for either claim.[20]
You want to try actually reading what you cite.
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On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 18:34:58 UTC+1, harry wrote:

And they used it as a snow substitute in the early 1930s for film and stage.
But there's no evidence the romans knew it was dangerous.
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I remember in the mid-1970s my dad knocked a doorway through from the utility room to the garage of our old house, and he lined the garage side of the door with a big asbestos sheet as fire-proofing. It came in a larger sheet that the door, so he cut it to size with a circular saw and sanded the cut edge smooth with a belt sander. The thought of all that asbestos dust flying around, with what we know now, is terrifying.
OK, he did it out doors and we wore dust masks but only to protect against breathing in the dust which might make us cough, like plaster dust would. We'd no idea that it was as carcinogenic as it is. Nowadays if that sort of cutting and sanding was done, it would probably be in a ventilated room with the dust captured for later disposal as hazardous waste, and proper breathing apparatus would be worn.
I know that it takes a long time for asbestos-caused cancer to appear, but my dad turns 80 next year and I'm in my mid-50s, and so far neither of us have had any ill effects.
What is used instead of asbestos nowadays for making fire-proof boarding to fasten to doors and ceilings, as a fireproof equivalent of plasterboard? How fireproof is plasterboard itself, once the outer paper sheeting has burned off? I suppose the plaster will crack and fall off if it's exposed to flames, so something a lot more fireproof is needed where a garage is joined onto a house and has habitable rooms in the roof space above it (my dad extended the bathroom into the garage roof space).
Looking back on it, that bathroom extension probably contravened a few building regs: the weight of the suspended floor, a few feet above the garage ceiling was braced onto the rafters of the garage ceiling which were a lot thinner than the ones in the real loft of the house. It had a washing machine on that suspended floor which probably made everything vibrate when it was on fast spin. The tumble drier vented its hot moist air into the garage loft. My sister and I used to play in that loft and made dens etc up there. If there had been a fire in the garage (eg an electrical fault in one of the cars) the only means of exit was through the hatch into the garage. Dad did leave a small escape hatch in the bathroom floor and told us to bash out the bits of floorboard that he'd left un-nailed as a push-fit, but since there was a carpet on the bathroom floor, we'd have had a job to knock out the floorboards and escape in an emergency....
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On 26/04/17 12:08, NY wrote:

'Masterbaord'. Its glass filled dcement IIRC

well it doesn't burn, but it crumbles.
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Don't any microscopic fibres of glass have an irritant (though non-carcinogenic) effect on the lungs, in the same way that glass-wool loft insulation does.
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On Wednesday, 26 April 2017 13:48:45 UTC+1, NY wrote:

Only short term, it dissolves in the lungs. Asbestos doesn't.
NT
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On 26/04/17 15:25, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Glass does not dissolve

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Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

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On Wednesday, 26 April 2017 15:42:40 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I read up on it a while back, and that is the deal. Asbestos stays there forever, glass fibre slowly dissolves, so is not around long enough to kill.
NT
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

    I have known glass particles to stay in a body for >50 years, they come out rounded off however.
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On 26/04/17 17:28, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Nope. Mineral wool dissolves. Glass does not
Read again

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But clearly didn’t understand what you read.

Nope.

Yes.

Nope.

Even sillier than you usually manage, and that’s saying something.
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On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 07:25:04 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

AIUI white asbestos particles also dissolve in the lungs over a few years, and don't remain long enough for cancers to develop, unlike the fibres of blue or brown asbestos. The latter two are mostly used for thermal insulation rather than fibre-board, although for a while after WW2 they were also used in both, so you can't be certain without analysis which your old shed is made from.
Not sure about glass fibres. A lot will depend on composition. Glass used for making glass fibre (E-glass) won't have the same composition as container or window glass, but I wouldn't like to say which is the more soluble in a lung environment.
--

Chris

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There's this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1012147/ The conclusion says "Commercial rotary spun fibreglass used for insulating appliances appears to produce human disease that is similar to asbestosis".
Note that asbestosis isn't the same as mesothelioma, the cancer very specific to asbestos fibres. AIUI asbestosis is a general deterioration of the lungs, broadly comparable to silicosis, farmers' lung, black lung in coal miners, byssinosis in cotton-mill workers, and many other lung deterioration diseases caused primarily by over-exposure to a specific dust associated with a particular occupation. None of them nice, all debilitating to a greater or lesser extent, all best avoided by taking appropriate precautions when handling, but they're not the same as mesothelioma.
PS IANA medical expert!
--

Chris

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Almost certainly it contained white asbestos (the mineral chrysotile), which is much less of a hazard than blue (crocidolite) or brown (amosite) asbestos, if it's a hazard at all over and above being dusty, white asbestos being of different chemical composition with much shorter fibres. And contained in cement, the chances of very fine long fibres finding their way down into the innermost recesses of your lungs is pretty low.

I've used Fermacell boarding. It's a gypsum board reinforced with cellulose fibres from recycled paper, but whether it's any more fireproof than traditional plasterboard, I'm not sure. https://www.fermacell.co.uk/3216.php and https://www.fermacell.co.uk/fire_1178.php
--

Chris

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On 26/04/17 12:34, Chris Hogg wrote:

There seem to be two generic sorts - multiboard is glass fibre reinforced and masterboard and this seem reinforced with somnething organic
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On 26/04/2017 12:08, NY wrote:

Just luck. My brother worked in a joinery shop and was exposed to asbestos in his twenties and now has signs of asbestos damage in his lungs, he is 62.
He is currently undergoing experimental treatment with stuff that enhances the immune system to attack the cancer.
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I did a bit of that myself in the very early 70s when building the house from scratch on a bare block of land. The entire 100' sunny side of the passive solar house has a 6' eave over the 7 massive great 8'x8' patio doors that are most of that sunny side of the house. The eaves have what we call fibro dropped in to the galvanised steel beams that form the entire roof and ceiling structure, instead of the paper faced pollyfoam sheets that are used inside the house for the ceiling.
I did most of the cutting with what we call a fibro cutter. https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTI1NVgxNjAw/z/yBQAAOSw3v5Yrs1k /$_35.JPG but those sheets have stamped flat U section painted steel pop riveted on the inside of the eaves and those holes all had to be drilled and I didn’t use a mask at all.
Not terrified tho, I havent even bothered to get some of the offcuts checked to see if they contain asbestos. Its just at the time when they may or may not have contained asbestos.
Just before that I had spent one uni summer holidays doing car maintenance in a decent sized workshop and that involved using compressed air to blow out the dust from brake drums. Never bothered with a dust mask when doing that either.

I'm in my 70s and havent had any ill effects yet.

Dunno. I do know that I have some massive great slabs of 1" thick stuff that was put on the rough concrete slab under the storage hot water services that appears to be what is used for that now.

Not at all. We’ve just had a house one house away from me deliberately set fire to by a loony who got in while the owners were away on holiday, chucked lots of petrol around inside cans and then lit it. I was standing on the other side of the road watching the fire trucks show up and watched it go from one side of the house so fast that the fireys didn’t even get a chance to run their hoses out and try to put it out. That place certainly had plasterboard internal walls, what we call brick veneer.

That doesn’t appear to have happened in this case. I could go and have a look inside now if you care, the owners have just left it and built a new place elsewhere.

Dunno, no real reason why a fire should start in the garage.
Much more likely to start in the kitchen with a fat fire etc.

Does that ever happen in real life ?

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