Would like to hear your views/experiences concerning kitchen extractor
hoods. I'm planning my replacement kitchen and am debating the pros
and cons of extractor hoods that vent through an outside wall compared
with those that, by virtue of location on an internal wall must clean
and then recirculate the air.
The hood will be located over a 900 mm wide 5 burner gas hob. The
current layout includes an extracting hood but I'm conscious of all the
(expensive) warm air that will be extracted along with the smell of
burning food! I'm also aware that one can run ducting from hoods
mounted on internal walls across cupboards to external vents but the
'internal' location of the hob would be on the opposite side of the
kitchen from the outside wall. I could run ducting across the ceiling
(unsightly) or through the ceiling void of the room above (difficult to
clean the duct work).
Any views etc on which hood to buy would also be welcome. BTW I'm 6'2''
and resent banging my forehead on cooker hoods when peering into pots on
There's really not a lot of point to recirculating hoods. The carbon
filters will absorb certain of the smells etc for a short while but do
nothing to deal with water vapour.
I would try to find a way to do a ducting arrangement since the
results of extraction to the outside are very much better.
One solution that I have seen for ducting is to use a flat, wide type
and run it along the top of the kitchen cupboards. You can create a
flyover shelf between them and in other areas to continue the line.
This also has the advantage that you can run cables and pipes and even
locate LV halogen lamps which are very effective next to walls.
In terms of manufacturer, a large proportion of hoods sold, many as
branded to appliance manufacturers, are made by Elica.
Elica has a wide range themselves and the UK distributor is DR
They sell through dealers and will recommend one. The last hood I
bought came from TLC Direct on special order.
Some of the models in the range come with metal mesh washable grease
filters. These can be removed and washed in hot water and detergent,
so no consumable filters are required.
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
I'll contact Elica.
As for ducting - unfortunately there is no 'over cupboard path' across the
kitchen (galley kitchen with doors at both ends) Sorry I should have made
that clear. At their previous (pre first War) house my father solved a
similar problem by ducting the extracted air down the back of the cooker and
into the void under the floor. Not an option in my concrete rafted house.
Are both doors to other internal rooms or is one an end wall? In
that case you could go through that.
Otherwise, is it feasible to swap the kitchen around mirror image so
that the cooker is on the outside wall?
I know it sounds daft for the sake of a cooker and hood, but if the
room is also relatively small, it's even more important to try and
extract to the outside.
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
Both doors are internal, in walls perpendicular to the outside wall, but not in
line with each other. The original plan was an 'L' shape surface along the
outside wall containing hob and, across the corner, a 'designer' (Franke) sink
some 300 x 430 mm. And a mirror image 'L' on the internal wall opposite
containing the double oven in the corner of the 'L'. Having thought more about
the sink, we have concluded that it will be too small for things such as grill
pans etc. On the basis that we cannot run sink waste across the floor of the
kitchen, we are considering relocating the hob to the internal surface and
installing a standard size sink somewhere else on the external surface. The
advantage of that is co-locating the 'hot' stuff and a useable sink.
I suppose that I could route a duct along the ceiling/internal wall junction
through the top of the oven housing and then up into the ceiling void and so to
the outside wall or just along the ceiling to the outside wall. <sigh> I wish
one could attach files!
What do you think about cleaning 'in void' ducting?
If you choose an extractor with a metal grease filter it will have a
reasonable but not perfect effect on keeping down what gets through to
Other than that, if you use flexible round duct, it may be simplest
and cheapest to simply replace it periodically.
If you use the rigid stuff then you are going to need to find a way to
make it demountable with reasonable ease.
If you can point me towards a free ISP that will offer some webspace and access
broadband I'd gladly post some pics. I do have access to an ISP offering part of
this, but (a) they no longer accept BB access and (b) in any case they seem to
withdrawn the free webspace!
Been following the thread and now I'd be interested to see photos up!
If you mail me some reasonable sized photos tonight and a bit of text to
stick with them then I can host 'em for you and post a link. I don't think
it'll generate a slashdot-magnitude traffic storm.... :-)
Can't guarantee they'll be there in perpetuity, but should be ok for the
email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
Thanks to Mine Host, you can find the pics and current layout proposal at:
Now, the first pic is the door in the top of the right-hand internal wall. The
second etc move anticlockwise around the kitchen. (Scuse the mess) The,
temporary, chipboard surface along the outer wall was installed when we moved
in 3 years ago and discovered extensive rot in the existing kitchen units.
TIA to all interested contributors.
Thanks to Mine Host, you can find the pics and current layout proposal
Now, the first pic is the door in the top of the right-hand internal
second etc move anticlockwise around the kitchen. (Scuse the mess)
temporary, chipboard surface along the outer wall was installed when we
in 3 years ago and discovered extensive rot in the existing kitchen
TIA to all interested contributors.
Very good, but I'm a bit confused.
The diagram is the new layout, right?
The outside wall is at the bottom of the diagram?
The new hob is in the bottom left of the diagram, i.e. to the left of
Could you elaborate just a bit because it doesn't seem that the duct
would need to cross in that case..... Obvioulsy this is not the
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
I guess that in the long, and learned, discussion the original question(s) have
The current plan, as shown on the web, has the hob on the outside wall under a
venting to the outside. In the bottom right hand corner of the plan is a Franke
whose biggest bowl is some 300 x 400 mm. Diagonally opposite the sink is a
'tower'. This is the only immovable item in the plan because of the need to
hide a lot
of CH pipes in that corner. Water and gas are placed along the outside wall
The design is over two years old now (enforced delay thanks to ICL deciding it
require my services when it became Fujitsu) and in that time we have ocasionally
long and hard about small sinks. The only solution we can think of is to locate
next to the ovens and fit a 'proper' sink roughly where the hob is shown on the
That raises the problems of providing a gas supply to the oven side of the room
another thread) and how to deal with smells and steam.
I briefly mentioned a extractor duct across the ceiling tonight and my beloved
deep breath and said 'no way'. I'll wait a bit and ask her exactly what she
Best regards Richard
OK, so what I'm missing is what is wrong with the plan you have
You have the hob and the sink on the outside wall?
Is the issue that you think that the corner sink is too small?
300x400 is a bit, isn't it. Is this their Papillon PAX 652-E?
Generally having the hob a long way from the sink is not a brilliant
move, especially as it would be diagonally across the room and
presumably the room is a thoroughfare? This could create a real
Moving the hob to the other side of the room creates a major PITA,
because you have to get the services over there and I agree, given the
layout, you don't want a duct across at ceiling height. The only way
that I can see that would make that half reasonable would be to run a
flyover shelf across the top of the arch, as I mentioned earlier,
effectively continuing the cornice line around the arch end of the
room. You could use an extractor built into a top cupboard unit to
complete the line, effectively stopping to the right of the window.
The only thing is that that might make the room seem a bit narrow at
that end. I wouldn't do that for either aesthetic, but more
important safety reasons because of the hob location.
It seems to me that a better solution would be to keep the items
roughly as you have them and do something to achieve a larger sink
or a second one.
Can you put the washing machine anywhere else like the garage for
example? Otherwise I wonder if there is a way for it to go the other
side of the room on the oven wall?
Alternatively, could the washer go in the space the other side of the
sink as you have it now where the plinth heater is shown?
This frees up 600mm under the window and you could put a second sink
in there and a smaller one across the corner perhaps. It looks like
you have about 300mm to play with between dishwasher and hob so you
could perhaps move things around a bit in that respect.
The little vegetable sinks are a dead loss in practice - too small to
do anything useful apart from deliver stuff to a waste disposer if you
If you are tight on space, the best option is generally a double bowl
sink You can drain things in it, stick a board on top for more space
- a lot more flexible than a drainer.
You might be able to fit in a double bowl or larger sink by moving the
dishwasher closer to the hob and moving the washer as mentioned.
Corner sinks are deceptive - they appear to be large and make use of
the space but are not as big as you think in practice.
No, in fact I think it might be a Blanco Viva 9E. 330 x 420. Bit bigger than I
but still pointlessly small..
Yes, the 'breakfast room' is beyond the arch. What's wrong with not having
sink near the
Very much so.
Larger sink is the driver for redesigning the layout
Unfortunately not. The front of the garage is approx. level with the mid point
of the room
beyond the arch. And running plumbing and drainage to it would require major
washing m/c could go under the surface at the point marked 'plinth heater'.
decided that the Myson Kickspace heater that was destined for this space is too
noisy - I
think that you can see it in one of the pics - and wants electric under floor
frees a 600mm space which could accomodate the washing machine.
Ooops should have read this bit before answering above!
Agreed, SWMBO thought it was big until I showed her how the dimensions compare
Thanks for sparing time to consider this problem,
Best regards Richard
Sorry not to be clear. If you put the hob on the oven side, you have
to cross the thoroughfare between the breakfast room and the end with
the two doors (is that the access to the rest of the house and the
back door?). If small children, cats,..... run through it seems
dangerous to me. You have the oven on that side anyway, but I
believe that conventional wisdom is that the danger is hot pans from
hob to sink. That happens a lot.
Typically you want some worktop between hob and sink if you can.
What I was looking at was trying to get the sink along the run under
Don't ignore the notion of having two separate sinks even if one is
smallish - fitting a 400 or 500 mm unit - and the other a bit larger.
Might be a useful idea - I'm not sure.
I didn't realise that the kickspace heater would wipe out the unit
from being used for an appliance. Freeing that space up does seem
to be the key to making this work.
Considering that the room is contiguous with the breakfast room, I
wonder whether increasing the radiator size in there would be worth
considering if you need it. The only thing to consider with UFH in
the kitchen is that there may be times when a lot of cooking is
happening and you want to reduce it. That takes time.
While I think of it, I think that having the extraction to outside,
considering that the room is open plan is an important point.
You could even put the dishwasher under the corner where you have the
sink shown now. It loses a bit of corner storage space relative to
a standard 600mm cupboard but overall it may not make a huge
You might have to build some mounting arrangement inside the corner
cupboard to take the appliance, but it should be do-able.
Doors into carport (which is what the over-sink window looks onto) and back
garden are through
the arch on the left and right respectively. The doors at the opposite end of
the corridor that
calls itself a kitchen, with hinges adjacent, are into dining room and entrance
To be honest I actually considered blocking up the window - as I said above it
looks onto a
carport and beyond that our neighbour's end wall.
Interesting. I'll not exclude it.
I'm not certain that the Kickspace heater does preclude fitting an appliance
into the same
cabinet. I made an assumption.
The only heating in the breakfast room, which the previous owners built as an
extension at a time
when the boiler was in the kitchen (in the corner to the left of our current
cooker - I think
that you can just see the remains of the flue projecting from the wall, is
provided by a wall
mounted gas heater. The old boiler was so badly insulated that they had no need
heating in the kitchen! Now that we have a new CH system (albeit powered by a
100) there is no boiler in the kitchen. I found the Kickspace heater when we
were in discussion
with the plumber about rads in the kitchen as a better alternative to a space
hungry wall rad.
It kicks out loads of heat and the cats cluster round it. Unfortunately it is
rather noisy, but
this may be because it is only resting on an old doormat before it is built into
SWMBO may not consider this a disadvantage. She suffers badly from cramp in her
walking on cold floors, and this only happens in the kitchen in this house (even
I wouldn't do that. Working with artificial light the whole time in
a kitchen is a bit horrible.
I think so. You have built under and built in appliances available
and they appear to be full unit height including legs. I might be
wrong there though.
They are a bit. Hence the idea of something in the breakfast room.
OK. Then you will need to think about that at an early stage.
If you are thinking about electric UFH, then I don't believe that it
incurs too much depth in addition to the tiles. Obviously any wet
plumbed version does. Bear in mind that if you use electric UFH and
don't have insulation underneath it could be a bit expensive to run.
The house may already have insulation under the concrete of
If you are going to go the whole hog on this it would imply digging
out the screed or raising the floor level. This may not appeal too
How about using two plinth heaters in different places run at low
If you have access to the heating pipes near the oven, how about
putting one run from that in the corner near the oven. You have
plinth space there and it would also be a lot less expensive to run
than the electric one. You could perhaps use a CH powered one most
of the time and boost it with the electric one when needed.
Also, considering the shape of the room, it would give you some warmth
more evenly distributed.
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