Is this right or total tosh???

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

Yep and it does happen, WHY! because the council don't inspect the work.

-- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

[Christian McArdle]

Whilst the reason is total bollocks, the solution is superior. A fan convector is ideal for a kitchen. Admittedly my fan convector is designed to go under the kitchen units, rather than above the door. However, both solutions are good in a kitchen, as it doesn't waste valuable wall space and the bit of noise from the fan doesn't matter when it is competing with fridges, dishwashers, tumble driers etc.

The fan convector fitted would cost several times the amount of the contract radiator that would have been the alternative, too, unless you mean the unit fitted was electrically powered, rather than off the central heating.

Christian.

[daddyfreddy]

Yes, but he fitted a fan heater in the kitchen, so did he pay out of his pocket for that? And I'm sure the fan heater is probably worth more than the steel rad.

[daddyfreddy]

Isn't it also a case of trying to keep as much usable space in the room? You're not likely to place any furniture or AV equipment up against the window so best place for a radiator.

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

[e-mail] wrote: [snip]

Heh! where does it say "HE" paid out? and there are cheap fans you know.

-- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

[Andy Hall]

Sigh.....

-He orders the heater and charges it to the council

-The radiator isn't returned.

[PammyT]

Oh for heaven's sake. Why is it grounds for complaint? He was mistaken or told a fib, big deal. I would accept that Sunday was Tuesday if it meant I was getting my central heating installed for free.

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

So how would you feel if you owned you're house and decided to get CH fitted (you're money paying for it),knowing that the rads where paid for by the council. :-)

-- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

[The Natural Philosopher]

It will lose more as the local area - the window and outside wall - is at a higer temperature in order to get the room hot.

[daddyfreddy]

I don't know why you're sighing. A fan heater was ordered instead which would be worth more than a steel rad anyway. That's the point I'm making. If the stuff ordered/replaced is not accounted for then he could just order more than he needs anyhow, there's no need for crap stories about how you can't fit rads in the kitchen.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It's not for free. It's paid for by the rent.

[Bob Eager]

But it's not free, anyway...someone has to pay - even the tenant pays something. And I wouldn't be happy with someone whom I was paying, even indirectly, lying so that he could get out of doing the job properly. It's no good trying to make it sound better by calling it a 'fib'...the word 'lie' is perfectly applicable.

[Chris Hodges]

Both nice ideas, but you need the rad to be stood off the wall a decent amount to do either. In the lounge we have to bundle the curtain up on the window sill or cover the rad and in the bedroom we can't even do that - the sill's too shallow. This isn't the 1st house I've lived in where that's the case.

You'll lose a lot less though - the rad heats the inside of the wall (feel it!) and so the temperature gradient is much greater than across a wall at room temp.

Chris

[Roger]

The message from Chris Hodges contains these words:

Even on the closer setting with traditional radiator brackets there is sufficient room to run a curtain behind the top of a radiator provided it is made to a sensible length and to place reflector foil behind a radiator is best done with the radiator off the wall.

To achieve a uniform temperature within a room you would have to match the heating to the heat loss round the perimeter. This is nigh on impossible even with skirting heating because doors but but if you want the smallest possible temperature gradient within the room the next best option is to concentrate the heating where the heat loss is greatest and this is almost always where the window is. Putting the heating on inside walls will give the maximum temperature gradient across the room making it feel colder than it really is which in turn encourages turning the thermostat up another notch or two.

[Roland Butter]

I reckon the main reason that radiators are usually under windows is that that's often the only bit of wall that doesn't have beds, doors, wardrobes, tellys etc in the way.

[Capitol]

This reads to me like total crap! I've done both and would never again fit radiators on an outside wall. The room thermal gradient would only be significant if the windows were poorly insulated and this would then give much higher heating bills. I suggest you go and calculate how much hot air is circulating from a radiator before committing yourself to putting radiators on an outside wall. Full length (floor to ceiling) curtains will always reduce the heat loss through a window, as will fitting say, roller blinds. IME putting foil behind radiators is about as effective as IMM's "magic" water softeners.

Regards Capitol

[John Whitworth]

We have under-unit fan heating in our kitchen too. It's lovely to come down to a freezing kitchen in the morning, and the switch the fan on, blowing out all that lovely CH warmth over your legs!

JW

[Roger]

The message from Capitol contains these words:

That's just your ignorance of basic physics showing.

Given that you need double glazing with low E glass to even equal the insulation quality of a single brick (9" plastered) solid wall the window is always likely to be the coolest vertical surface in the room unless there is a poor quality outside door. The amount of hot air circulating is to an extent irrelevant. It should be sufficient to maintain the room temperature at the thermostat at the temperature set on the thermostat. The temperature in the rest of the room is dependent on the heat loss through the perimeter and the air movements within the room. The worse the insulation the greater the amount of hot air and indeed the radiation which, IIRC, usually amounts to approaching half the heat output.

However what really matters with room heating is the comfort of the occupants. The more even the temperature within the room the more usable it is and the lower the average temperature the occupants find acceptable. To create a situation where the only temperature gradient is between the floor and ceiling the heating must be all round the perimeter and exactly match the heat loss of the section above it. This is of course impossible to achieve. Putting the radiator under the window goes some way to achieving the aim but putting the radiator on an inside wall exacerbates the situation.

As to heat loss through the window that is dependent the temperature difference between inside and outside and is there really so much difference between the air rising from a functioning radiator and the constant stream of warm air drawn to the window anyway by convection? And to set against any increased loss through the window you have the savings from not having to raise the average temperature of the whole room quite so high.

Still only reducing the heat loss by extra insulation. You still have the temperature gradient across the room from overheated inside wall to cooling outside wall.

Oh so you think Drivels water softener actually works then? Sorry to disappoint you but reflective foil utilises a well known physical property, namely reflection, to at least reduce the localised hot spot in the wall behind the radiator.

[Capitol]

Another pile of crap.

My university physics is quite up to date, I don't recall the rules changing over the past 50 yrs.

Just do a few calculations and then take the trouble to measure the actual practical results. The theory of heat reflection is not particularly effective over a distance of two inches from another surface with substantially the same emissivity. Radiators on outside walls placed under windows simply increase the heat loss from the room and contribute little or nothing to the cross room temperature gradient.

Regards Capitol

[Capitol]

It's lovely to come

Why would you want a freezing kitchen in the morning?

Regards Capitol