Is Ellis Board dangerous?

[Crafty Bugger]

I think it's called Ellis board. It's a heat resistant board used to line flues.

I need to saw up quite a bit of it and it seems quite dusty. It looks like asbestos!

Ta.

[bigcat]

Not heard of it, but asbestos risk depends on the type of abestos used: white is not a significant problem, but blue and brown are serious risks.

Proper info here:

NT

[AlexW]

Never heard of this board.

But if you suspect its asbestos then sawing or taking power tools to it is a really bad idea.

Unless you know exactly what type of asbestos it is and precisely how to handle it safely then you could be taking a risk with your (and other peoples) health.

As an aside ... have you thought of how you will dispose of the waste? Not all local tips will take it and you may need to double bag it etc before they will accept it even if they do (your local authority may be able to provide advice here). If its commercial waste you will have to pay for disposal I suspect.

Have you considered professional removal?

Alex

[The Natural Philosopher]

No abets boards are sold these days.

Its probably gypsum and glass fibre. Nasty but not carcinogenic, but wear a mask anyway, and use a hand saw, and if squeamish, wet to lubricate and kill the dust.

[bigcat]

not really. there is a minor risk but the public has been scared witless over them without good cause. You do more dangerous things every day without batting an eyelid.

Professional removers will be happy to charge you a fortune for their theatrics, and leave it in someone elses dustbin for normal disposal by the binmen.

NT

[Andy Dingley]

White asbestos is a significant dust hazard if you're cutting it, it's just not on the same scare-level as "asbestos". Even MDF or mahogany is a "significant problem" for dust control.

[AlexW]

I have read this somwhere (although I can't remember where) and also was told this by a "professional" removal company who did engage in theatrics with dust masks and disposable overalls etc. They did say that the risk to health from asbestos cement products is very low unless you generate a lot of dust and that I could have done the job myself taking the right precautions ... but I don't know what Ellis Board is so would not advise cutting it it up this way.

Are you advocating cutting asbestos with tools/power tools?

Maybe. That was not my experience with the ones I employed to remove my ancient garage, although they did admit that there was good money in it, and that it would be a growing business over the coming years.

BTW, if they fly tip asbestos they clearly are not professional (and are looking at a stint!).

Its the disposal fees that are the real killer ... last summer the quote I had was £90+vat a ton in a skip + skip hire on top. I could have taken it to my local tip for free, but then there's the bagging issue and transporting bulk amounts of the stuff. The company I employed took my garage away for £500 pounds, it was less than a days work for 2 people ... for me this was a reasonable fee, which is why I suggested this option.

Alex.

[AlexW]

See

and

[Chris Bacon]

I think you can buy Ellis Board today. Try a BM for info (sheet materials?). What makes you think it's Ellis Board?

[EricP]

I took an old ironing board down the council tip last week. I wisely removed the small panel of asbestos that the iron sits on, before I got there. (I foolishly ignored safety precautions as we have used it for ironing for 25 years, and it is an old friend).

I took this little panel of the stuff and showed it to one of the guys.

He looked sadly at me and said "As the asbestos bin has been removed for emptying, we cannot accept it for disposal, sorry".

I turned to walk away and one of his mates, came up to me, took it out of my hand, smiled and chucked it on the large heap of household junk he was JCBing.

Problem solved.

[bigcat]

Not a reliable source of info then.

Before getting into any of that one needs a bit of clarity. The term Asbestos covers 3 different substances, 2 of which are a real health risk, and one of which, which comprises nearly all asbestos found, is harmless. If the asbestos product is blue or brown, caution is needed, but if its white, white asbestos, chrysotile, bonded in cement, is a safe building material.

Thinking on this has changed since the 80s: initially the 3 types were not studied separately, but more a recent study showed it is blue and brown that have killed people, not white, which has materially different properties.

disposal by

Professional n.: Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career

I doubt it, but its veryc ommon practice, either way.

I think thats at the lower end of asbestos disposal charges, but =A3250 per person per less than a day is a bit on the steep side. Especialy considering disposal is free (see the site you reffed).

NT

[Crafty Bugger]

I assume you mean "I don't think you can buy Ellis Board today."

I was recommended to buy some Ellis board (for a project I'm working on) by a bloke at B&Q. They didn't sell it, but I just buy it at my local Plumb-Centre. They seem to know what i mean when I ask for a few sheets of it.

It's fairly crumbly stuff, and looks like there are flakes of metal embedded in it.

If there is another name for it I don't know it.

What do you mean try a BM?

[AlexW]

Are you sure they are not reliable?

Yes ... but how do you identify each substance *reliably* - genuine question. This seems a fairly important point.

I shall restate my question: Are you advocating sawing white asbestos cement products?

Thinking does indeed change and I am sure your recent study reflects the current thinking, although I haven't read it ... in my case I was not really prepared to gamble at all.

Or "professionally" adjective, "characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a professional".

It may be a common practice but it is a little unfair to tar the whole "profession" with the same brush ... which is what your initial post seemed to imply.

Well disposal could have been free for my domestic asbestos waste. However the refuse site probably couldn't be persuaded to allow a van with an asbestos company logo on the side to dispose of it FoC, even with my assurances ... so their margin on this work was probably less than you are assuming (I think you knew that really though!).

[Chris Bacon]

No, I mean "I think you can (still) buy Ellis board today" - I seem to remember seeing it recently.

So you can buy it! Eh?

If it's modern, it won't have asbestos in it.

Try asking at Jewson's, Travis Perkins, Buildbase, or similar, to see whether they know what it is.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I think this whole thread is bollocks.

First of all no such product as Ellis Board exists or ever has as far as a lot ogf googling is concerned, and secondly, now the OP hads got everyone on an asbestors roll, he seems to have vanished...Troll?

[The Natural Philosopher]

No such product has shown up on any web searches: I've never heard of it.

The material that is normally used is Multiboard, Maxiboard, Masterboard or Supalux.

Mica probably. If it exists.

Mica in Gypsum. If anything worse than just plain gypsum in tems of falling to pieces.

Completely harmeless of course - no asbestors bearing board is on general sale these days.

Builders mercahnts.

[AlexW]

FYI: Legal situation is up to £20K fine 6 months custodial sentence for fly tipping, increasing to 5 years if hazardous substances (including asbestos)are involved.

[AlexW]

Beginning to think the same thing!

[Peter Parry]

I wouldn't - it ruins the saw.

That rules out all of the asbestos disposal industry.

I gather their latest scam is to dump the stuff on farmland and then report its presence to the local authority. The LA tell the farmer to remove it (at the farmers expense - nulabor decided a neat way of reducing rubbish disposal costs was to make landowners pay to dispose of rubbish dumped on their land).

Hey presto - a day later the dumpers turn up at the farm and offer their services as certified Local Authority approved professionals to remove the stuff at a discounted rate.

With a bit of skill one load of asbestos cement can generate many farm worths of revenue.

[AlexW]

Fair enough ... but then you might have guessed I won't be trying this any time soon :-)

A bit harsh, to use the word "all"? What basis does this statement have (genuinely interested here, not just being picky).

I have not heard of this happening in my neck of the woods ... but it does seem like a typical criminal scam ... and that is what we are talking about here.