How to make digging holes easier ?

[Steve Firth]

Roger Chapman wrote: [snip]

For a similar job I used an SDS drill with a chisel To break up the floor.

[Steve Firth]

Been there, done that, but in clay.

[Onetap]

Those are shovels. You don't dig with a shovel. Shovels are for shovelling. That'd only work if the ground had been broken up by something.

[ARW]

Please tell me you are making this up.

[Dave Liquorice]

around

A 90 cm deep trench is bollock height, or waist if you are a short arse. A collapse is likely to bury your legs to the knees or above and buried that deeply will be trapped. Having said that you should be able to scrabble away some of the muck and get some movement to lift one foot a bit and hopefully get some muck under it and move it slowly upwards, same with the other foot. Don't forget this 50 cm wide trench doesn't give you much room either, a carver dining chair is about 50 cm wide.

[Nightjar]

When I worked for an electricity board, we had a workman in a similar trench trapped by one wall collapsing and pushing him against the other. It took two hours to dig him out.

Colin Bignell

[ARW]

Trust me. I have no idea of what a carver dining chair is.

[ARW]

Bollocks:-)

It took you 10 minutes to dig him out.

However it took you 1 hour and 50 minutes to get permission to dig him out when you called the REC's call centre.

[Nightjar]

I go back to the days when the bloke on the spot made the decisions. In the workman's case, the decision to jump into an unsupported trench was probably not his best.

It most likely did only take ten minutes to dig him out. The rest of the time was making it safe for somebody else to get in there to do it.

Colin Bignell

[John Rumm]

You need to watch em, they are armed ;-)

[Dave Liquorice]

He he, I hope that doesn't go whoosh as well. B-)

[Dave Liquorice]

similar

Have you ever been in somthing "grippy" or hard to shift to above your knees?

The other problem with a collapse is that when you remove some of the material more collapses in or the would be rescuers can't get close enough without risking getting trapped themselves in the unstable ground. Can't decide if a large or small angle of repose makes things easier or harder.

[Steve Firth]

Gosh, you don't say, shovels eh? That would be why I referred to them at least four times as "shovels" would it? And you didn't notice that I had done so, are you going for some sort of medal for "missing the bleeding obvious"?

Bullshit. As I said in my post, the British don't have a bloody clue how to dig large holes or trenches. They are fixated on using the wrong tools for the job and use garden spades which are designed for turning over a vegetable patch or flower bed which has been repeatedly dug over for years.

"Stunning advice"

No, and you're clearly an idiot who has never used a *digging* shovel such as the ones referred to above. The pointed blade makes them easier to kick into stony ground and clay. The long handle gives greater leverage to break out clods and also allows a more upright working position that puts much less strain on the lower back. Across the USA and Europe you won't find many, or I suspect any, people digging with a British spade because the spade is not fit for purpose.

[Tim Lamb]

Tentative criticism... I find the straight handled Irish shovel can twist in your hands and dump half the load back in the trench. I have similar problems with the four pronged straight handled dung fork found in stables. Dry skin perhaps.

[Onetap]

Deeply strange, this. What's going on here?

I've dug a fair few holes in my lifetime, but I don't claim to be a hole-digging expert. So, when Mr OP asks for advice about digging holes, I keep quiet.

Until Firth posts his pearls of wisdom.

You can look up the recommended digging technique on the internet.

It goes something like this. Foot on the shoulder of the spade, press in to a spade's depth, lever out a spit of soil, chuck spit into barrow/trench/wherever.

Repeat. Work side to side and progress backwards.

If you've ever done that, the differences between a digging spade and a shovel are obvious.

A shovel (for grain, gravel. soil, etc.) has turned up sides and a wider blade. The blade is thinner, usually a pressing rather than a forging. It will not stand up to use as a spade, the blade is too thin to serve as a lever. The handle is usually too thin, for the same reason.

A spade has a sharper, narrower, flatter blade and a cutting edge, usually square, sometimes slightly pointed.

You'd try to break up the soil by the minimum amount. Sometimes you have to beak it up with a pick or mattock, in stoney or dry soil that can't be cut, and then shovel out the spoil.

Is that wrong? Anyone who has ever dug a hole would know that stuff.

So then Firth arrives and recommends the use of wholly unsuitable shovels.

The description of the West Country Shovel he recommends says; "The blades are hardened and tempered, so they can be used for light digging as well as for moving loose materials such as shingle, sand and gravel."

It's a shovel, for moving loose material. It's not a spade, for digging, though you might dig soft soil with it.

He doesn't know how to dig! Has he ever dug a hole? Is he real, or a mere internet expert? If he is the DIY dynamo he claims, how does he get the time to rack up 100, 150 posts on this forum alone? How about other forums? Is it another Rod Speed?

Anyone know what's going on here?

Firth, you can sod right off; you're clueless. I'm asking about you, I'm not addressing you. Go and dig a hole and stand in it.

[The Natural Philosopher]

An opinion on everything and experience of nothing. KIllfile?

[Tim Lamb]

No. They both have useful practical knowledge.

Perhaps it is the heat?

[sm_jamieson]

Hi probably could have stopped there, if he had a sensible BCO ! Simon.

[Rick Hughes]

I find a mattock useful when doing any such trenching (plus a pick)

[Rick Hughes]

I spent my time at school & college working weekends on a family members building firm .... while long handled shovel are good for soft ground or moving sand .... the best for digging was a D-handle spade. With a Square mouth shovel for squaring off.

I have since built 3 house and still have same opinion, the D-handle allows far better leverage than a straight or T-handle.

These style of shovel built the canals, the railways etc. ... several million Irish Navvies can't be wrong :-)