I sometimes find my left hand works better than my right. (Not a screen, I know, but definitely for iPhone unlock button. Hence, set up for a left fin ger.) If I have a problem, the first thing I try is my left-hand. Almost al ways works.
Some disorders affect skin dryness, etc., and people correlate state of hea lth with screen touch sensitivity.
+1
Have you used any others such as Jitsi?
Because they are often also hard of hearing and don't 'get' the right syntax for things so end up talking to / over it at the wrong times.
Given that many older folk go though the entire list of the family / pet dog names before they get to yours, how likely is it that they will remember 'Alexa' or 'Hey Google'?
We (inc my 90yr old Mum) have voice recognition on the Portals, never use it, because we are not physically disabled (where it might be an advantage).
There is no way I would give my Mum anything that could allow her to run up a bill. We have already learned that lesson on her PAYG phone where she used up £50 credit in a short time by both caining the data (didn't understand when to or not to use it) but mostly by somehow signing up for something that took £1/ day from her account for something she didn't want.
Cheers, T i m
Change the wake word/phrase to be a pet dog's name?
If I were ever to consider one of these devices, and I can't see that happening other than for disability reasons, I'd want to change that.
Jitsi is very simple indeed. No account needed, no additional software.
I have my own jitsi server!
It bad enough (for the dog) with all the TV adverts that have doorbells in them, let alone having their name shouted several times an hour! And if the elder can't get the name of a child they have had for 63 years right, what chance of the name of a newly made up pet! ;-)
I'm not sure you can (or can 'easily' but we have Google home devices here and haven't tried and we have Alexa in the Portal and haven't tried with that either). I mostly use the Google Home devices as streaming radios.
Cheers, T i m
There is also Eldy ...
I think some of the logic was that when a non ePerson sends a letter they first write the letter *then* they address the envelope, then they send it.
With a traditional eMail client you *first* address it and then type what you want (and send it). 'Different.'
eg, Eldy presented the eMails the way they were used to sending snail-mail.
Cheers, T i m
That seems unlikely to me:
My house Nowheresville
1 April 2099Mr Bank Manager Megabank The metropolis
Dear Mr Bank Manager
Please give me...
Yours sincerely
Me
Yes you don't write the envelope first, but you decide who you're writing to and put their address in the letter. If it's not a formal letter maybe you skip that bit but you still are thinking about where you're going to send it as you're writing the letter.
"Analysing the gaze times, the mouse-logs and the cognitive walkthroughs (CW) it has been demonstrated the following statements :
? Eldy is generally easier to use compared than the traditional Windows pc.
? The difficulties encountered by the elderly are due to non-recognition of some commands or icons.
?The evaluation made clear that the difficulties found by the elderly are not simply due to an inadequate comprehension of text and images but, more interestingly, to unfamiliarity with some specific procedures that are commonly used in interface interaction."
This is pre-iPad, and I would agree that Windows, especially in the Vista era which is when they were started, is hopeless for beginners.
Theo
I did check that it is possible on some of them. Though I wasn't exactly exhaustive in that checking.
My brain struggles to speak to devices. Why, sometimes speaking to humans isn't quite as easy as it should be.
Except that sometimes instead of Uncle Bob it sends your email to Manager Bob before you realise.
Owain
I disagree. I think you want the minimum cost of entry for email and a little web browsing so that they can try it out first. That is probably to use a borrowed Mifi pebble with a 200MB/month free data limit and whatever suitably cheap 10" Android tablet you can find in Cex. Even better if the club has one that they can lend to would be internauts.
For your own sanity it might make sense to standardise on a couple of models for people that you may need to support remotely over the phone. I quite like the Samsung tablets myself although the first one I got for my mum was a no name generic Chinese one for about £50 which worked OK (she didn't get on with it though) followed by a Tesco HUDL on coupons.
Otherwise you are talking an ADSL install charge and a commitment to a
12 or 18 month contract on a landline service. That's a lot of money for some folk - especially if they don't believe they want to have it!
You would be surprised how quickly granny can adapt to Skype or Zoom.
That is one of the core reasons why many silver surfers are on the net! Video calls with their family - especially during the lockdown.
She may make the people on the other end of the video link sea sick by waving her tablet about but that is another matter.
It would make sense that it could be, unless there is a very subtle (over and above the obvious that few of us know an Alexa or use that name in general conversation) AI reason why that sort of name was deemed (one of the) best etc?
No, my curiosity was only minor and transitory. ;-)
I'm not bad with it now because I have spent many hours in the early days helping people setup the likes of Dragon Dictate.
I have a shopping list app on my phone that is pretty (smilingly accurate most times) that just creates the item entry, you have to edit the quantity / pack size / other variables manually.
eg, You tap on the microphone icon, speak your item .. "Robinson's Summer Fruits sugar free cordial and there it is as an entry. You then tap on it and add quantity (1), format (1 litre bottle), save. I can then highlight (or not) what I want then send it to our Whatsapp Shopping Group for daughter to process (she takes all our lists and prints them off with colour codes and in the order of the (4) shops she visits to fulfil them before delivering. ;-)
Quite. ;-)
(Not what you meant but daughter was just on hold (1.125 hours) to Dyson support chasing up an order that was to be '1-2 weeks' about 5 weeks ago).
Same stock reply when you are chasing up a Pizza delivery ... 'It's just being dispatched now ...'. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
I agree on the cheapness point, but Android is such a dog's breakfast. Every version they move things around, and then OEMs like Samsung come along and move things because they feel like it.
Even basic things like how do you open the app menu. Do you:
- press the physical home button (some don't have them)
- press the virtual home button on the bottom of the screen (sometimes it disappears)
- swipe up from the bottom (swipes are hard to do accurately, and sometimes even able fingers get them wrong)
It might work if you can have a baseline version and carefully selected hardware, but it's hard to maintain that over a long period.
Yes, a loaner with LTE sounds like a good way to address this. Also a loaner that they have for a limited time might be useful in forcing engagement - rather than putting it in a drawer until them get around to it. Then present a menu of options on how to go from there.
(The loaner could turn into a keeper if they paid for it - and perhaps the loan organisation could buy stocks of used tablets they could resell at cost)
Theo
I used to regularly use one particular automated support line - and hated i t. (Thank you, HP.) I'd have to prepare what I need to say, and breathe dee ply, before even dialling the number.
If it failed to understand at any point, I'd usually hang up and try again. Rather than going through previously unexplored pathways.
Piece of paper, a torn up old notebook from about twenty years ago, mostly pink. And a pen or pencil. Lying on the side in the kitchen. Very easy to s hare. The only real downside is forgetting to take it with us when we go ou t.
:-)
There are times when I seem to think a response rather than speak it. Someo ne says "The pan's just about to boil over!". I think "Phew! Glad you notic ed.", and go and turn off burner. Then realise that I should open my mouth to respond to the speaker - "Thanks, that was close.". Rather than speak "A h! Right. OK.", then do the necessary.
(Yet at other times I can drivel on for GB.)
computer
+1Nothing like having an itch to drive people into doing what ever is required to scratch it.
Oh I remember those days!
Not with someone who doesn't live with you and in a form that can then be edited and processed.
No, that's just one of the (many) downsides of using your solution in our scenario. Everone who is supplied shopping by our daughter is on the same Whatsapp group so any additions, deletions or amendments can be applied realtime. 'Dad, I'm in Aldi and they don't have x, would you like y' (using the same interface).
Yup, I find myself doing that (and less) more and more, especially with the Mrs. She is one of these people who if allowed, would probably talk though / narrate / comment of a film or TV program we are watching, missing half the content (and making me miss half the content). I guess that may be a function of how intensely you want or_may_be_able_to apply concentration / focus on what you are watching.
If I watch a film (I'm interested in) I try to take in as much of it as possible, including anything going on on the side (Like seeing the moving star stop in the opening few seconds of MP's Life of Brian'). Now, *I* still have reasonably good sight and hearing so it seems I see things that she (in this case) simply can't / don't. She asks me if that's 'You know who' from [1] when it's nothing like the person I know she thinks it is and the show / film they are best / typically known from.
As can most of us. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
[1] Yesterday she was on Boots Online website trying to see if / where her repeat prescription was. I had to instruct her though every screen (it seemed) ... when the only available option in many cases was 'Continue'?So, once we had stumbled to the conclusion they were on order, she asked how she should exit and I said (for the n'th time on each session), 'Go to the burger Menu' when I might just as well said 'Squekb pbottit'. Does it actually have to look exactly like a burger (with the detail of the bun, pate and cheese hanging out) for that icon to be re-recognised after you have used it 10 times before? Ok, I know sometimes it's just 3 dots (this wasn't) but it's the same function. So, we found it (no, it wasn't anywhere else but the top of that page, had you actually scrolled that far back up and not sat puzzled looking at the middle of that page) and found, along with logout was also 'Previous orders'. I suggested she try that as it might confirm if they though they were going to or had sent her order and after doing so, she asked if she should just close the browser (but not in those words of course). So I said, you can, but it might be better to log out via the Burger Menu and there we were in exactly the same position as we were 5 minutes before? ;-(
I have suggested he makes notes for herself of such things as in that way she wouldn't have the stress (of not knowing, if I wasn't there etc) but she never seems to take it up (but she keeps a small diary so she knows what we have done each day) and I feel it might be patronising to make such a crib sheet for her.
"{Burger menu image} = Burger Menu. This is found on many WEB pages, programs and Smartphone Apps and is a general menu giving you extra functions, like logout, print or settings."
So, following up on what you said ... I hear most of what she says but don't believe (hope) she's not actually looking for replies (outside 'Ok' possibly) on much of it, although if I was another 70 year old woman I think I probably might?
How would you react to 'We are running out of Oat (long-life, so not in the fridge) milk' when you know you aren't and CBA to explain where it's stored (again) and knowing you will put one in the fridge ready when the open one is getting low in any case? I know she means well but like I said, I don't think I'll make a good carer ... ;-(
Android ONE?
Though I still think a laptop would better than a tablet even a large one.
You mean the list of all installed apps? Don't routinely need to do that you have your frequently used icons on the "desktop", maybe grouped by function on different pages.
I think most elderly will already have a landline. Way back we didn't have a phone at home, which normally came as great surprise to others even then. It wasn't until us kids left home (late 70's) that we insisted that they got one...
Which just leaves the xDSL install and service charge. Trailing with a mobile connected device probably isn't a bad idea to see if they get one with and also if the rest of the family get on with having granny video chatting for a couple of hours every day...
+1
Set Dad up with a dial-up-modem on his iMac and email account (free). Didn't see the point so it came back with our daughter a couple of weeks later with a 'Thanks but no thanks'. 2 years later when the BSI went paperless he paid some 'Mac Guy' ~£200 to set him up with the exact same. ;-(
For Mum it was trying to talk her though doing something technical on the phone and her not sounding like she was not bothered (she rang me with the problem) and, out of frustration she said, "I'm old, tired and lonely". Now she's always been a tough old bird (still looking after Dad when he was fit and she's got a broken arm) and so that got to me and I arranged 4 Portal Minis (her, her daughter, her 2 granddaughters) and I think they really helped.
Easy to use (not 'a computer', more an appliance), loud, clear, simple (once set up etc).
Now, nothing you couldn't do with many other solutions on many other platforms but being dedicated mean they would stay working and available when your tablet was flat or being used elsewhere and quicker to power up and have running than most PC's and laptops.
We since got one as well (partly to offer support to the others but outside of some basic install funnies, haven't had to) and we don't even have ours plugged in, powering it up when we get an incoming call (comes up on my Phone) or a 'Portal?' request from daughter / Mum / family on IM.
Given (as mentioned) one of the first things that many elderly parents miss is the personal contact with their Covid estranged family, something that provides a video-chat link in the easiest form might be the most used / appreciated?
Cheers, T i m
-1. I have been avoiding scratching despite having 3 grandchildren! Partly because I prefer a desktop PC with no camera provision. Partly bandwidth limitation despite being on an unlimited service. Mainly because I think communication is an exchange of information and not a social event. Just naturally grumpy!
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