How does Bowden cable work

Hi all
I need to extend the Bowden cable for my bath pop-up waste. I have got a re placement cable and now struggling to fit it. The old cable is terminated a t each end with a brass fitting which allows the full cable in one side but only the core the other.
I had to cut the old sheath off the brass fitting and the bit inside came o ut buy twisting it with a pliers and pulling it out.
Now having fitted the new one, when I operate the waste the sheath pops out of the brass fitting so just ends up using the force to move the sheath in to a bit of an arc. It would appear that the sheath needs to be attached to the brass fitting somehow. Both old and new sheaths are a fairly loose fit ting in the brass fitting so glue may not be strong enough (if I could work out which to use). The inside of the brass fitting is smooth so threading it on doesn't seem to be the trick either.
Anyone have any idea how this is supposed to be attached ? Maybe I am missi ng something about how Bowden cables work and the sheath doesn't need to be attached.
Any help appreciated
Thanks
Lee.
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If you look at high load situations where you need flexible cables - like say a car gearchange - they generally use two so the load is taken by each as a pull.
If you wish to have one which both pulls and pushes - for low load only - it need a solid inner (so far less flexible) and the outer secured at both ends. That can be with a clamp, or a crimped on ferrule secured to a bracket by a circlip, etc.
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On Sat, 09 Jun 2018 12:24:05 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"

I thought they generally had two for the two planes of movement, one doing the push pull and the other the rotation (to duplicate the 'H' gear selector gate)?

Yup, because the gear change on my Messerschmitt KR200 is 'sequential' it just has a push-pull cable with more rigid 'ends' where it connects to the gear change lever or gear selector arm on the engine.
It actually travels in a open 'Z', from by your right knee, up the RHS of the cockpit, across the back and out into the engine bay and onto the engine.
I think the brand is 'Teleflex'.
http://www.tnorrismarine.co.uk/product/teleflex-morse-cables/
Cheers, T i m
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On 09/06/2018 12:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Agreed. The common instance of a push-pull cable, in the good old days, was in car choke cables. IIRC bonnet releases also sometimes had (and still have) a solid inner. But then they have a pretty fixed run and don't need much flexibility.
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Looks like soldering the sheath into the fitting is the best next step. Do I use a normal blow torch and plumbers solder? Is also would the fit copper pipe?
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Hi all
I have taken some photos and tried to upload them to a public album (hopefully not done this for ages). They show the fittings and particularly the brass fitting I need to connect the sheath to. Hopefully this works
https://photos.app.goo.gl/L44RinHPY2v2UeEbA
I have tried some searching but can only find examples of soldering the fitting to the wire rather than the sheath to the fitting. They seemed to use "silver solder" which I assume is not the same as plumbing solder
Thanks
Lee.
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I think this would have been crimped to the sheath originally. I doubt you’ll have much joy soldering. I’d try epoxy resin or replace the whole mech (control and pop-up) as I doubt it was designed to be replace piecemeal.
Tim
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On 12/06/18 20:30, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Bowden cables typically only work in tension so there is no need to fix the outer to the ferrule
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The brass of the fitting it too thick for it to be crimped and it is perfec tly smooth with no sign of buckling. A few people here have said the sheath needs to be under tension. Given the Bowden cable forms an arch from the waste to the knob, how do I put it under tension? Pushing the ends of the s heath just alters the curve of the arc. I suspect I am missing something - sorry
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It’s only under tension when you turn the knob to pop the plug up. It’s not pre-tensioned. The sheath just has to be securely anchored at each end.
Tim
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Which is why typically replacement mechs incorporate both ends (with no need to cobble bits together).
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Concealed-Bath-Overflow-Pop-Up-Plug-Waste-Twist-Chrome-Handle-Plastic-Pipe/171874130165
Tim
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Do try and keep up.
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On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 12:30:52 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

A picture speaks 1000 words. ;-)

If that fitting is plastic and that brass socket doesn't release from the fitting I wouldn't want to solder it in place.
As I believe has been mentioned, it might be best (therefore) to 'glue' the Bowden outer to the socket using a 'Liquid Metal' epoxy. The bond will be in shear and as long as it's all nice and clean and dry when done, shouldn't ever come out again. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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Luckily the brass bit does come out it is secured using a clip the other side.
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On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 23:32:31 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Whilst that is good, I'd still not bother trying to solder any of those bits together because it will still probably melt the sheath off the outer.
Clean the inside of the brass bit out with some coarse abrasive paper / round file / sharp small screwdriver (to remove and debris and create a key) and clean both parts with a suitable solvent.
Mix up some suitable quantity of a quality epoxy, apply to both parts, put together and leave 24 hours. Refit and just forever without that part ever being a problem ever again?
Personally I think JB Weld would be ideal (if not overkill) but it's not quite so easy to get in the UK as it was (but still on eBay etc).
Cheers, T i m
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On 13/06/2018 08:27, T i m wrote:

Spot on, I was going to say the same thing.
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On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 09:23:54 +0100, newshound

I think if you have tried to do this sort of thing before (and I have, many times) I think it's both the easiest and most-likely-to-succeed option. ;-)
The key is the material to be glued. As long as it's all stuff that you have had experience of before and know it to be good, then the total outcome should be good. If one is (say) an unknown type of plastic then I might try a test first and go from there.
The other thing is 'what are you trying to get the adhesive to do?' If it's to provide material / support itself then 'it' has to be strong enough to do so (like JB Weld). If you were retaining something that might need to move a bit but wouldn't have a lot of strain on it then something like silicone / Evo-Stick can be 'better' than something more rigid.
In the OP's case I believe the goal is to rigidly bond the outer of a 'flexible link' to a bracket that uses a form or ferrule that was previously attached somehow. Therefore, a rigid bond should be fine and as both steel (coil outer) and brass are very compatible with JB weld, I think as long as the surfaces are (chemically) clean and even just enough applied to both surfaces to fill the void as completely as possible, you would be hard pressed to get the two apart without destroying both (that is my ultimate test). ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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On 12/06/2018 20:30, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Very helpful. "Silver soldering" is done at red heat, I think even "soft soldering" (i.e. plumbing / electrical) will deform the plastic however careful you are. I would go for epoxy: abrade and degrease the parts first. Someone has already suggested this.
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On 13/06/18 09:22, newshound wrote:

Silver soldreing is done at a bit less than red heat, but yes, its way above 'soft solder'
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On 13/06/2018 19:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Easy Flo No 2 is one of the lowest, 608 to 617 C, which is very dark red. I reckon you need to get your work up to near enough 700 to be practicable, which is dull red. Not bright, I agree, but clearly visible in a dark-ish workshop.
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