You could use those I guess, but the chances of finding one handy aren't
that great. We used ones like this instead:-
How do you make a bandstand?
Take away their chairs.
I think you have to look at whether the job is worth that to you, in
terms of the outcome. If was just one bloke doing it, it may look like
a bigger job because it would take a week or more, but things always
move disproportionately faster with a few more hands.
The roof of my last place (relatively small and simple) was replaced for
£3k. The quote for this place (much bigger, more complicated and much
higher) will cost the thick end of £9k, and that was after I sat down
with the roofer (who's a good bloke) and worked through all the possible
permutations to get the best bang per buck.
When I had a builder in re-laying all the drains (again, good bloke who
does a good job), his formula seemed pretty simple: Any extras were
£500 near as dammit, if they were a day or so's work, for him and his
lad, normally including materials if nothing exotic. Most of those
add-ons, I could have done myself but would have taken maybe a week to
do what those two do in a day, and my week is worth more than 500 quid,
it depends on which perspective you look from.
Sometimes, too, it's worth coughing up a bit to get a decent job done,
especially on something like a roof.
As you say, it is what it is, but would you want to spend every day at
work on other peoples' dodgy old roofs without making a few quid?
Not these days, most garages will do fixed price work.
You are buying a roof, only the final price matters.
Even if they break it down you wont be able to pick and choose getting
the tiles from the cheapest place and the labour from the cheapest place
for a small one off job.
The hourly rate will vary as they change the mark up on the materials,
some will put on big mark ups so their hourly rate looks less but in the
end it makes no difference.
Its also a risk vs reward thing. If they quote a fixed price for a job
then they are assuming more risk, and hence will expect a better reward.
500/day *including overheads* and that can make one heck of a difference.
Probably. Unless you can get a good feel for the real costs of operating
The costs of the people: Employers NI, Sick pay, recruitment, training,
fixing their mistakes at your cost, and then general embuggerance factor!
The equipment: vehicles, insurance, maintenance, tools, fuel
The business premises (even if run from home - they still have a value),
the insurace, equipment, energy etc. Any stock using up capital and
The fees: business insurance (public liability, professional indemnity,
employers liability), accountancy, legal fees, advertising, web site etc.
When you add up the costs for even a one man band you can rapidly get to
the point where your first £20k - £30K of turnover (or £10 to £15 per
hour) is swallowed breaking even (at least some years, if not all)
Hi just like sticking an oar in. Do you think you've got the right price
for materials cos 500 pounds per day per man does seem abit steep. My local
small garage having 4 mechanics, no car sales or petrol charges 40 pounds
per hour. A main agent might charge up to 100 pounds an hour but also sells
cars petrol etc but does need more staff. Then 500 pound per man per day
does seem high. I wouldn't say there is a great skill difference between
bulders and mechanics Boith require specialised knowledge. I thought most
trades were happy with 250 to 300 a day. Must be out of touch.
If it's a job I can do, or want to do I just do it.
If not, and I'm happy with the price quoted I'll pay it. I've given up trying
to work out things like hourly rates - treat the bill as a lump and if you
are happy then stop worrying.
Had a new fence recently. 1500 quid. Parts were about 650 quid. Took
just under 2 days so almost 500 quid a day.
It was cold, and wet, and getting the old posts out took the 2 guys a
lot of effort. I was warm, dry and just made tea. They made a much neater
job than I could have done, much faster. I had a half a day off work
instead of a week, and I didn't get cold :-)
I also still have a fence two months later, unlike most of the neighbours :)
Well worth the cost, even if it was nearly 500 quid a day.
On 22 Feb 2014, email@example.com (D.M.Chapman) grunted:
I had an interesting experience the other week. A tenant called me
during the storms to say that her roof (a 2-up 2-down terrace) was
leaking; I went round and from beneath could see felt hanging down and
daylight through the ridge tiles; clearly the ridge tiles needed
rebedding. Probably a job I could DIY with a roofing ladder for the
cost of a bag of cement; however TBH I'm getting on a bit, and SWMBO
said 'like hell you are' so sought a roofer. Unfortunatly I don't have
any in my 'black book' so had to find a new one; never good. I could
only get one form to return calls/provide a quote, which came in at
nearly 700 inc VAT.
Having picked myself up off the floor, I really had no choice but to
agree, as I couldn't get any other interest in the job and the roof was
leaking on my tenant.
Anyway, they did the job, all fine - and came back with a bill of 300
as the job 'was easier than expected'. Wonders will never cease! The
firm has made it into my 'black book'.
But you had two blokes, so that's 212/day, in man-day terms, surely?
So you should also factor in the cost of your own time saved, even if
it's paid holiday - ie 4.5 days of labour at your own usual pay rate.
The 1500 was probably a bargain by that calculation!
Couple of colleagues at work have leaky roof problems following the storms.
Can't find a roofer to even come and look around canterbury for a couple of
months as they are all busy with storm damage work :-(
Well, boss was only there for two half days but yeah, in man-day terms it was
under 3 total.
May as well give a credit actually, no connection other than a happy
customer (twice now :-))
Yeah, massively so. Hence my comment about I might do stuff myself if
it's something I *want* to do :-) I built a deck myself instead of
paying - I wanted to do that. Out in the heavy rain, trying to dig out
old fence posts? Sod that :-)
Repaired a post myself two weeks ago..
SDS to chisel away the concrete on one side..
crowbar to get the rotten wood out of the post hole..
drop spur in hole..
two hex headed screws into post..
concrete around and fill old post hole..
done.. £15, took an hour.
Easy if you support the old post and fence before you start and you
can't tell its been done from outside.
An important thng is to know exactly what you are getting and they are all
quoting for the same thing.
Otherwise you can end up with "extras" which cost an arm and a leg part way
through the job as the have you by the bollix.
Nil by mouth. Quote against a specification.
Wee update ..
*3* guys turned up today (still hammering). They've ripped all the old
battens off, and nearly laid all the felt and new battens. The dry
valleys have also been put in place.
If it helps size the job, we have 500m of battens, and 1,400 tiles
I suspect they'll leave the roof felted for today and come back tomorrow
to start laying tiles.
All in all, given we found them o t'internet (but they are CheckATrade
members, which apparently counts for something) so far I'm pretty chuffed.
The main thing is, what's the job like? In my many years as an aerial
rigger I saw some shocking roof work. Ridge tiles left loose, mortar
made with a teaspoonful of cement to a ton of sand, areas of flashing
missing, areas of tile totally botched (broken bits used behind the
chimney where it can't be seen for instance), chimneys pointed where it
shows and not where it doesn't, pots just resting on the top with no
haunching, you name it they'll do it. Not so long ago I saw one where
they'd removed four tiles from where they couldn't be seen and used them
where they could be seen. They filled the hole with a bin bag.
And don't get me started on guttering.
My advice to anyone having a roof done is to get themselves or a
knowledgeable friend up there by hook or by crook as the job progresses
and also after it's finished. If you can lift a ridge tile with your
bare hands it's not been done right. You have to get up there and look
closely at what's been done. Some of these buggars can talk the talk and
they are very convincing.
I agree that as a profession they have a very poor rep. I remember coming
across a roofing firm somewhere or other online (maybe via this ng?) whose
USP was that they provided a before and after video of the job; which
struck me as a brilliant idea for a decent firm to adopt, to reassure
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