How do tradesmen charge ?

Colin Stamp wrote:

I think I understand, although your suggestion invites many questions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandstand
Bill
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On 22/02/2014 16:38, Bill Wright wrote:

You could use those I guess, but the chances of finding one handy aren't that great. We used ones like this instead:-
http://r.ebay.com/L2bksw
How do you make a bandstand?
Take away their chairs.
Cheers,
Colin.
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They stick two fingers in the mains socket? Hides behind sofa.
Brian
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From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active



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On 21/02/2014 19:56, Brian Gaff wrote:

Shocking!
--
Adrian C


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On 21/02/2014 16:11, Jethro_uk wrote:

I think you have to look at whether the job is worth that to you, in terms of the outcome. If was just one bloke doing it, it may look like a bigger job because it would take a week or more, but things always move disproportionately faster with a few more hands. The roof of my last place (relatively small and simple) was replaced for £3k. The quote for this place (much bigger, more complicated and much higher) will cost the thick end of £9k, and that was after I sat down with the roofer (who's a good bloke) and worked through all the possible permutations to get the best bang per buck.
When I had a builder in re-laying all the drains (again, good bloke who does a good job), his formula seemed pretty simple: Any extras were £500 near as dammit, if they were a day or so's work, for him and his lad, normally including materials if nothing exotic. Most of those add-ons, I could have done myself but would have taken maybe a week to do what those two do in a day, and my week is worth more than 500 quid, it depends on which perspective you look from.
Sometimes, too, it's worth coughing up a bit to get a decent job done, especially on something like a roof.
As you say, it is what it is, but would you want to spend every day at work on other peoples' dodgy old roofs without making a few quid?
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On 21/02/2014 16:11, Jethro_uk wrote:

Not these days, most garages will do fixed price work.
You are buying a roof, only the final price matters.
Even if they break it down you wont be able to pick and choose getting the tiles from the cheapest place and the labour from the cheapest place for a small one off job.
The hourly rate will vary as they change the mark up on the materials, some will put on big mark ups so their hourly rate looks less but in the end it makes no difference.
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D'ye want to buy the tiles from the cheapest place? OK maybe for tiles it doesn't matter but I would have thought that anyone any good would want to fit quality parts.
--
"People don't buy Microsoft for quality, they buy it for compatibility
with what Bob in accounting bought last year. Trace it back - they buy
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On 21/02/2014 21:53, Tim Streater wrote:

Do you think everyone charges the same price for the same product?
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On 21/02/2014 16:11, Jethro_uk wrote:

Sometimes...
Its also a risk vs reward thing. If they quote a fixed price for a job then they are assuming more risk, and hence will expect a better reward.

500/day *including overheads* and that can make one heck of a difference.

Probably. Unless you can get a good feel for the real costs of operating the business.
The costs of the people: Employers NI, Sick pay, recruitment, training, fixing their mistakes at your cost, and then general embuggerance factor!
The equipment: vehicles, insurance, maintenance, tools, fuel
The business premises (even if run from home - they still have a value), the insurace, equipment, energy etc. Any stock using up capital and depreciating.
The fees: business insurance (public liability, professional indemnity, employers liability), accountancy, legal fees, advertising, web site etc.
When you add up the costs for even a one man band you can rapidly get to the point where your first £20k - £30K of turnover (or £10 to £15 per hour) is swallowed breaking even (at least some years, if not all)

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Cheers,

John.
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Hi just like sticking an oar in. Do you think you've got the right price for materials cos 500 pounds per day per man does seem abit steep. My local small garage having 4 mechanics, no car sales or petrol charges 40 pounds per hour. A main agent might charge up to 100 pounds an hour but also sells cars petrol etc but does need more staff. Then 500 pound per man per day does seem high. I wouldn't say there is a great skill difference between bulders and mechanics Boith require specialised knowledge. I thought most trades were happy with 250 to 300 a day. Must be out of touch.
Dave

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If it's a job I can do, or want to do I just do it.
If not, and I'm happy with the price quoted I'll pay it. I've given up trying to work out things like hourly rates - treat the bill as a lump and if you are happy then stop worrying.
Had a new fence recently. 1500 quid. Parts were about 650 quid. Took just under 2 days so almost 500 quid a day.
It was cold, and wet, and getting the old posts out took the 2 guys a lot of effort. I was warm, dry and just made tea. They made a much neater job than I could have done, much faster. I had a half a day off work instead of a week, and I didn't get cold :-)
I also still have a fence two months later, unlike most of the neighbours :)
Well worth the cost, even if it was nearly 500 quid a day.
Darren
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On 22 Feb 2014, snipped-for-privacy@auk.kent.ac.uk (D.M.Chapman) grunted:

I had an interesting experience the other week. A tenant called me during the storms to say that her roof (a 2-up 2-down terrace) was leaking; I went round and from beneath could see felt hanging down and daylight through the ridge tiles; clearly the ridge tiles needed rebedding. Probably a job I could DIY with a roofing ladder for the cost of a bag of cement; however TBH I'm getting on a bit, and SWMBO said 'like hell you are' so sought a roofer. Unfortunatly I don't have any in my 'black book' so had to find a new one; never good. I could only get one form to return calls/provide a quote, which came in at nearly 700 inc VAT.
Having picked myself up off the floor, I really had no choice but to agree, as I couldn't get any other interest in the job and the roof was leaking on my tenant.
Anyway, they did the job, all fine - and came back with a bill of 300 as the job 'was easier than expected'. Wonders will never cease! The firm has made it into my 'black book'.

But you had two blokes, so that's 212/day, in man-day terms, surely?

So you should also factor in the cost of your own time saved, even if it's paid holiday - ie 4.5 days of labour at your own usual pay rate. The 1500 was probably a bargain by that calculation!
--
David

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Very sensible. Not only are we less agile, have worse vision, than we used to, if we do slip the consequences are worse.
--
"People don't buy Microsoft for quality, they buy it for compatibility
with what Bob in accounting bought last year. Trace it back - they buy
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Couple of colleagues at work have leaky roof problems following the storms. Can't find a roofer to even come and look around canterbury for a couple of months as they are all busy with storm damage work :-(

Well, boss was only there for two half days but yeah, in man-day terms it was under 3 total.
May as well give a credit actually, no connection other than a happy customer (twice now :-))
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jon-lewis-fencing-Ltd/136513316524202

Yeah, massively so. Hence my comment about I might do stuff myself if it's something I *want* to do :-) I built a deck myself instead of paying - I wanted to do that. Out in the heavy rain, trying to dig out old fence posts? Sod that :-)
Darren
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On 22/02/2014 09:18, D.M.Chapman wrote:

Repaired a post myself two weeks ago..
SDS to chisel away the concrete on one side.. crowbar to get the rotten wood out of the post hole.. drop spur in hole.. two hex headed screws into post.. concrete around and fill old post hole..
done.. £15, took an hour.
Easy if you support the old post and fence before you start and you can't tell its been done from outside.
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An important thng is to know exactly what you are getting and they are all quoting for the same thing. Otherwise you can end up with "extras" which cost an arm and a leg part way through the job as the have you by the bollix.
Nil by mouth. Quote against a specification.
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Wee update ..
*3* guys turned up today (still hammering). They've ripped all the old battens off, and nearly laid all the felt and new battens. The dry valleys have also been put in place.
If it helps size the job, we have 500m of battens, and 1,400 tiles delivered ;)
I suspect they'll leave the roof felted for today and come back tomorrow to start laying tiles.
All in all, given we found them o t'internet (but they are CheckATrade members, which apparently counts for something) so far I'm pretty chuffed.
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Phil L wrote:

The main thing is, what's the job like? In my many years as an aerial rigger I saw some shocking roof work. Ridge tiles left loose, mortar made with a teaspoonful of cement to a ton of sand, areas of flashing missing, areas of tile totally botched (broken bits used behind the chimney where it can't be seen for instance), chimneys pointed where it shows and not where it doesn't, pots just resting on the top with no haunching, you name it they'll do it. Not so long ago I saw one where they'd removed four tiles from where they couldn't be seen and used them where they could be seen. They filled the hole with a bin bag.
And don't get me started on guttering.
My advice to anyone having a roof done is to get themselves or a knowledgeable friend up there by hook or by crook as the job progresses and also after it's finished. If you can lift a ridge tile with your bare hands it's not been done right. You have to get up there and look closely at what's been done. Some of these buggars can talk the talk and they are very convincing.
Bill
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I agree that as a profession they have a very poor rep. I remember coming across a roofing firm somewhere or other online (maybe via this ng?) whose USP was that they provided a before and after video of the job; which struck me as a brilliant idea for a decent firm to adopt, to reassure punters.
--
David

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I have a mate who is a self employed roofer, and for many a year he's taken pics of any problems when assessing a job for a quote. Certainly from before the time phones with cameras arrived.
--
*The modem is the message *

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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