How do tradesmen charge ?

[Jethro_uk]

Working in IT, and having been brought up in a motor repair trade, I am used to the concept of charging per hour.

However, it seems to me that builders charge more "per job". Is this a fair assumption ?

Having the roof completely replaced at the moment, with a CheckATrade approved contractor. The agreed figure is £7,600 for new tiles, dry valley, verge and ridge tiles, along with refelting rebattening, and new fascia boards. Because we're a bungalow, there's no scaffolding costs (just a sodding big roof :().

Firm sent 2 lads today (got here at 8:30 and have just left). They have removed all the old tiles, and weatherproofed the felt for tonight. Tomorrow they're to start removing old battens and felt, and start fitting the new ones, although they think it'll need to be finished on Sunday. Tomorrow the gaffer will be here too, so that'll be 3 people.

So overall, it's something like 7 or 8 man-days.

No idea how much the parts cost, although there's probably the thick end of 1,000 tiles. Plus the valley kits etc ... £2,600 ?

Either way, it's hard to shake the feeling that in man-day terms, I'm looking at £500+/day.

Of course the works figure has to cover overheads and expenses, plus travelling time, which I appreciate, but £500/day seems a tad steep ?

Or should I just think in terms of price per job ?

AFAICT this is a kosher sum ... I had 3 quotes between £7,500 and £8,000, so it is what it is.

[Davey]

I'm not a contractor, but did you not get breakdowns of the estimates/quotations before agreeing to the job?

[John]

It is the work you do, not how fast you do it !

Paying for experience.

[Jethro_uk]

To my shame, not really ... I'm a little frazzled with various other shit going on domestically, and dealing with tradesmen has done my head in. It's not something SWMBO can do, and the bottom line is we were filling bowls when it rained, so it's not really something that could be done in a leisurely fashion.

[Jethro_uk]

I guess that's a fair view. I remember an old friend of my Dads telling a tale of fixing a car. He charged something like 10 shillings to the shock of the customer.

"You only turned a screw !" "Ah, but it's knowing *which* screw" came the sage advice.

[Nightjar]

...

Around £60 an hour, including weekend working, excluding only materials. Would you expect the motor trade to charge less these days?

Colin Bignell

[newshound]

Not knowing where you are, that does not seem a bad price for complete replacement of a big roof. Roofing is hard work as well as being fairly skilled, and risky. I agree your calculated day rate seems quite high although I guess these are long days. But you will pay that for half a day of a junior solicitor.

[harryagain]

This sort of "emergency" work in Winter does cost more. Best done in Summer when activity is not so frenzied.

Ie if they miss out on a few jobs through price, well there are plenty more. right now.

[The Medway Handyman]

I like the story about the Victorian gent who called in a plumber to change a tap washer. He received a bill for ten shillings & sixpence.

He wrote to the plumber demanding an itemised bill.

The itemised bill duly arrived;

Tap washer - sixpence. Knowing how to change a tap washer - ten shillings.

[The Medway Handyman]

At the end of the day, all tradesmen work for an hourly/daily rate. This is calculated to cover the costs of the business & the labour.

Tradesmen also, quite rightly, mark up materials.

However, customers want a fixed price for the job.

Since you can't always tell exactly how long the job will take, I always over quote slightly, so a fixed price job very often costs the customer more than if they had agreed to pay an hourly rate.

Some jobs I will only take on by the hour.

[Bill Wright]

How can they do a roof without scaffolding?

Bill

[Brian Gaff]

They stick two fingers in the mains socket? Hides behind sofa.

Brian

[Yendor]

A shallow pitched Bungalow wouldn't need scaffold.

[GMM]

I think you have to look at whether the job is worth that to you, in terms of the outcome. If was just one bloke doing it, it may look like a bigger job because it would take a week or more, but things always move disproportionately faster with a few more hands. The roof of my last place (relatively small and simple) was replaced for £3k. The quote for this place (much bigger, more complicated and much higher) will cost the thick end of £9k, and that was after I sat down with the roofer (who's a good bloke) and worked through all the possible permutations to get the best bang per buck.

When I had a builder in re-laying all the drains (again, good bloke who does a good job), his formula seemed pretty simple: Any extras were £500 near as dammit, if they were a day or so's work, for him and his lad, normally including materials if nothing exotic. Most of those add-ons, I could have done myself but would have taken maybe a week to do what those two do in a day, and my week is worth more than 500 quid, it depends on which perspective you look from.

Sometimes, too, it's worth coughing up a bit to get a decent job done, especially on something like a roof.

As you say, it is what it is, but would you want to spend every day at work on other peoples' dodgy old roofs without making a few quid?

[dennis]

Not these days, most garages will do fixed price work.

You are buying a roof, only the final price matters.

Even if they break it down you wont be able to pick and choose getting the tiles from the cheapest place and the labour from the cheapest place for a small one off job.

The hourly rate will vary as they change the mark up on the materials, some will put on big mark ups so their hourly rate looks less but in the end it makes no difference.

[Tim Streater]

D'ye want to buy the tiles from the cheapest place? OK maybe for tiles it doesn't matter but I would have thought that anyone any good would want to fit quality parts.

[John Rumm]

Sometimes...

Its also a risk vs reward thing. If they quote a fixed price for a job then they are assuming more risk, and hence will expect a better reward.

500/day *including overheads* and that can make one heck of a difference.

Probably. Unless you can get a good feel for the real costs of operating the business.

The costs of the people: Employers NI, Sick pay, recruitment, training, fixing their mistakes at your cost, and then general embuggerance factor!

The equipment: vehicles, insurance, maintenance, tools, fuel

The business premises (even if run from home - they still have a value), the insurace, equipment, energy etc. Any stock using up capital and depreciating.

The fees: business insurance (public liability, professional indemnity, employers liability), accountancy, legal fees, advertising, web site etc.

When you add up the costs for even a one man band you can rapidly get to the point where your first £20k - £30K of turnover (or £10 to £15 per hour) is swallowed breaking even (at least some years, if not all)

[dennis]

Do you think everyone charges the same price for the same product?

[Bill Wright]

How can they work safely around the edge then?

Bill

[Colin Stamp]

When my brother and I did the roof on my single storey extension, we used bandstands. They felt safe enough.

Cheers,

Colin.