How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it. I see countless Youtube videos of people falling off them. But why? If you are about to fall over backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and simply roll under your centre of gravity? It should be impossible to fall off.

Reply to
Commander Kinsey
Loading thread data ...

Fuck off Hucker.

Reply to
Mr Pounder Esquire

Not possible with your feet still on it.

Reply to
Steven

Half the people on the planet are below average IQ so are incapable of riding a self balancing scooter.

For the double-digit IQ crowd there is the Teknique HD6 powered wheelchair.

formatting link
.

Reply to
Romera Etafodor

I'm sorry, was the question too difficult for you?

Reply to
Commander Kinsey

What isn't possible? It moving under you or you falling off it?

Reply to
Commander Kinsey

My point was why does the rider need any skill whatsoever? The device should move under your centre of gravity automatically. Perhaps they have to be calibrated, and people falling off are borrowing someone else's of a different height or weight?

Reply to
Commander Kinsey

"simply roll under your centre of gravity" while ever your feet are still on it.

Reply to
Steven

Is this two wheels inline (like a bicycle) or two wheels side by side on the same axis (a Segway)?

I had chance to ride a Segway through Corunna in Portugal on an organised tour. It took a few minutes of riding on the flat before I felt sort-of confident, and then when I thought I was doing OK I had to do an emergency stop, over-corrected and fell off. The trickiest part was getting on or off; once I was on and balanced, I was fine. After about half an hour I felt pretty confident: the guide took us through streets that had a lot of pedestrians (but no cars!) and I was able to ride safely around them. When we stopped for a rest and to let the slower ones catch up, I managed to make the Segway turn about its midpoint, with one wheel going forwards and the other one going backwards.

The Segway does have a big advantage over things like this

formatting link
in that it has a handlebar that you can hold onto and move from side to side to steer. Steering purely by adjusting your weight on the two footrests presumably takes a bit more practice.

Now all we need is for our H&S-obsessed government to license Segways for use on either pavements or roads (whichever they choose): why do other countries think they are OK (as long as people are responsible) whereas in Britain the attitude is "no way - not *anywhere* that isn't your own private land".

Reply to
NY

I wonder whether a lot of the problems with people falling off are that they are scared when they tilt too far, and instinctively try to correct by adjusting their position instead of standing still and letting the scooter do the adjustments to keep you level, or else they panic and jump off.

I probably went through all those stages in the first 30 mins of getting on a Segway for the first time. But after a while you develop and refine the muscle memory to work out just how much you need to move to stay level and not to "fight the machine" - similar to the skills you acquire when you learn to ride a bike.

I'd be interested to see if now, two years after my one and only chance to ride a Segway, I'd take less time to adjust to it again. Is it like riding a bike, I wonder: once you've learned, it always comes back to you, even if you haven't ridden for many years.

As regards riding a different Segway, yes, I found it does make a difference. My wife and I were given different sizes/models of Segway, appropriate to our height and weight, and even after I was pretty damn good on the one I'd been given, I had great difficulty when I borrowed my wife's to try it - presumably different sensitivity and amount of motor correction that I would have to adjust to.

It's a skill that has to be learned: it's a myth that you can get on one having never ridden it before and immediately manage to stay on in all circumstances. But it doesn't take long to acquire the skill. The route that our tour guide took us on started with straight, level paths, then gradually introduced gradients (it was great fun to lean right forward and go bombing up a hill to the Roman Lighthouse in Corunna), and by then end of our time, he took us through streets in the town centre where there were lots of people that we had to avoid. Going over cobbles and raised manhole covers was "interesting". No pedestrians were harmed :-)

Reply to
NY

Why would that not be possible? Let's say you're stood stationary and upright on it, not moving. Now, you lose your balance a little and begin to fall over backwards. Your feet tilt backwards, the device senses this, and moves backwards. You're now still over the device and don't fall off it. The more you tilt over, the faster it goes, moving your feet so they're under your centre of gravity, thus you don't fall.

Reply to
Commander Kinsey

Like a segway but without the handle. Exactly like the thing you linked to below:

formatting link

I thought Segways, like the scooter I described, were automatic? It simply shouldn't be possible to fall off them.

It may be a law, but it's not enforced by anyone but the dumbest and most OCD of policemen. And since most of them are ridden by kids, what are they going to do? Jail the kids?

In the same way, it's technically illegal to ride a bicycle on the pavement in the UK. But you never get done for it. I mean I could injure you just as badly by running into you as cycling into you. I can run as fast as the average cyclist.

Reply to
Commander Kinsey

When I tried one, when I lost my balance it appeared to scoot off in the wrong direction - eg I fell over backwards and the scooter went forwards. No idea why - it should have been trying to power itself backwards underneath me.

But with a bike, you have to balance, with these devices surely they should be doing the balancing for you? You should never actually fall over, because no matter what you do, it moves under you.

Maybe they've improved? Apparently the one that a cameraman used and crashed into Usain Bolt was not a genuine Segway - there must be cheaper badly made versions.

I've read something about the scooter versions requiring "calibration" - perhaps to your height and weight? So if you just jump on someone else's, it won't work too well.

In my experience, an adult cannot use a scooter version. Only kids. Adults lack the balance skills, no matter how hard they try. Kids just get on and go with no practice whatsoever. I guess our brains don't work once we "grow up".

Reply to
Commander Kinsey

I imagine the control logic has to be very clever because it has to cope with a human standing on it. If you had a rigid human-sized figure on it, and you pushed it so it was about to topple over, the logic would easily correct for this.

Now substitute a real person with knee and hip joints, able to adjust their own balance sideways and fore/aft, and liable to try to make their own corrections which may counteract those that the scooter tries to make, and you've complicated things a lot. A Segway, like a bicycle, is inherently unstable and needs advanced control logic (whether human or computer!) to keep it upright and to make corrections. I understand that it has now been found to be a myth that the gyroscopic effect of the wheels plays much of a part in keeping a bike upright, and that it's all down to minute adjustments of the steering.

I wonder how long it will be (if ever!) before the UK allows Segways etc to be used anywhere other than private property - ie anywhere that the public might be. We seem to be very backward in allowing them, whereas an unskilled person on a bicycle or roller skates or one of those bloody mobility scooters can easily injure a bystander. I still have the bruise on my hip and my foot where an old biddy reversed into me repeatedly in the supermarket ("the scooter won't move, so I'll keep trying until it does") and then drove over my foot. And she had the audacity to swear at *me*, when I was trying very hard not to swear at *her*. She rode off in a huff and hit a display stand. Poor woman wasn't safe to have control of a scooter.

Reply to
NY

When say it decides you are falling backwards, and moves back, while you are standing on it, the complete assembly of you and the scooter moves back and it doesn't change where it is relative to the person's center of gravity.

Yes, but it can't move under the center of gravity while your feet are still on it.

The scooter moving backwards has done nothing to stop you falling backwards.

That doesn't happen.

Reply to
Steven

You've forgotten Newton 3: "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".

It moves the wheels by the motor exerting a torque on them. This causes an equal and opposite torque on the scooter-and-human, thus moving the person's C of G relative to the axle until the C of G is once again directly over the axle. This is how it corrects for the person leaning too far forwards or backwards.

If the person leans back, the sensors detect that the scooter is tipping backwards, and rotates the wheels backwards, thus tipping the person forwards.

Reply to
NY

I knew steering played a big part (I thought about 50%) because I've seen a trick played where people are given bicycles with fixed steering, and it's very difficult to balance on them. I'm sure the wheels play a big part too - if you remove a bicycle wheel and keep the hub, then spin it holding the wheelnuts, it's difficult to turn over. Mind you, maybe that's not enough to prevent the weight of the rider falling over too.

They can go anywhere already - that stupid law is not enforced.

I'm sure you'll live. I do find it amusing that the faster species of scooter (they have 4mph and 8mph versions) are not allowed on pavements, when I can legally run on a pavement at well over 8mph.

I find more problems with pedestrians in supermarkets. I was pushing my trolley along quite normally the other week when someone walked backwards into the end of it. He then yelled at me "You could have said something!" So I replied "Like what? Get out of my way you incompetant moron? I hope it's your wife that's driving home...." She was somewhat amused, and he was not.

Reply to
Commander Kinsey

He's a thick Australian, and has changed name again. He gets really upset when I don't talk to him. His real name is "Rod Speeed" (with two Es - if I used two my newsreader would remove the thread).

Reply to
Commander Kinsey

Nope.

Yes.

Nope, because the tilt of the human doesn't change much.

Fraid not.

No, it applies force, it doesn't shift the CoG.

By force, not by moving the CoG

Reply to
Steven

Doesn't it? I've never really watched one in operation that closely.

You may well be right: by exerting a forward-twisting force it may counteract the tendency of the person (whose C of G is still behind the axle) to twist the platform backwards. I suppose the fact that it does this allows the person then to move to adjust their own C of G once the platform is stable again.

Reply to
NY

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.