House Building

wrote:

Jules, the stereotype US house (from movies etc ;-) is a concrete basement with a timber house on top. Are the basements still common - that must take a while with poured concrete etc ? Simon.
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On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 06:37:15 -0700, sm_jamieson wrote:

I don't think they're nearly as common as they were. I don't think I've seen a place built prior to the 80's here that *doesn't* have a basement - but I believe lots of new builds just have crawlspaces beneath the ground floors now. I think in some areas (although not around here) whether there's a basement or not can affect property taxes and insurance prices quite a bit.
cheers
Jules
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Jules Richardson wrote:

Its surprising, but you can often find masonry (as in rendered block rather than brick) can work out cheaper than wood over here.
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Cheers,

John.

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Brick is maintenance free. Although some wood cladding is as well.
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On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 09:36:17 +0100 John wrote :

Back c.1980 a small development of back-to-back starter homes in New Malden was done using volumetric units, basically container sized timber framed boxes all finished internally, craned into place, services hooked together, brick veneer facing and roof tiling. In Building Control our initial reaction was negative, but our tame structural engineer said he'd much rather see the majority of the work done in a warm dry factory with proper supervision.
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Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on' Melbourne, Australia
www.superbeam.co.uk www.eurobeam.co.uk www.greentram.com
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On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 09:36:17 +0100, John wrote:

It's not that expensive to build a house anyway, it's buying the land that forms the bulk of the price. Around here, a typical (average quality) rebuild cost would be 70-80K, while buying would be around 180K.
SteveW
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Steve Walker wrote:

That is a bare shell rebuild cost. In reality when you buy a second hand house, its got a lot of after market addons in it: mature gardens, cupboards, more than a basic kitchen , cupboards etc etc.
You can easily double that cost to turn a house into a home.

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On Sat, 01 May 2010 13:38:43 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

All that's just as true of a pre-fabricated house though. Okay some of the interior fittings may be included, but you're still looking at cupboards, wardrobes, floorcoverings, suites, etc. As to a second-hand house, the first thing most people do is rip-out everything that's not to their taste and start again!
SteveW
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Tripe. Most people change them.
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Commercial buildings typically have a design life of about 30 years. Traditionally built homes have a design life of 200 years. There's no problem building homes with a design life of 30 years (and it's commonly done in other countries), but such homes are much cheaper, and UK developers are not interested in developing homes which sell for any less. Developers already use cheaper building techniques for many homes, but have so far managed to still sell these for top prices, even though they will not last as long as traditionally built homes. They largely see it as a game of how cheaply can they get away with building, without the sale price dropping.
Ultimately, house prices depend on supply and demand, and the supply has been too low for a long time. Artificial measures such as insisting on a proportion of "affordable housing" just makes this worse. It's only solvable by building enough homes in total.
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Andrew Gabriel
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Andrew Gabriel wrote:

No, the *demand* has been too high.
In my day, there were less people and I was 28 before I could even afford a rented FLAT on my own, let alone buy a house, which I managed to do when I was 43.
These days pepole leave college and expect to instantly own a house!
Artificial measures

Yes.
It's only solvable by building enough homes

No, its solvable by peoples expectations coming down to the point where owning a house is a minority privilege, and something only very successful people can afford to do, until such time as the population drops well below housing stock, and there are more affordable homes. There are in fact plenty of affordable homes, as long as you don't mind living in a burned out post industrial town etc.
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Seems rather late in life?, whenever was that?..

No not all, a lot rent out of choice as they tend to move around a lot...

Right houses in the right places i.e. more of what we used to call council houses and perhaps less exec flats etc etc..
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Tony Sayer


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You'd have to scrap the Labour Govt's policy of taking all council house receipts, thereby making it harder for councils to maintain existing stock or build new ones.
--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
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Nay!, didn't mean the council had to build them, just homes for families Three up and Two down with a garden and indoor lav etc not "exec" flats all the bloody time like they do round here!...
--
Tony Sayer


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Andrew Gabriel wrote:
snip

It is a problem made worse by the large scale demolition of existing stock, more often than not property that was once more than adequate but has been vandalised. The shirking classes then refuse to live in such property and the whole sorry cycle will be repeated in ever decreasing time scales as the aspirations of the shirking classes are ratcheted ever upwards.
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On Sat, 01 May 2010 14:17:37 +0100, Roger Chapman wrote:

Demolition of existing stock that could be brought up to a good standard for far less than the cost of replacement - as was shown with one large redevelopment project in Liverpool last year.
SteveW
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Was that the godawfull Sheil park flats?..
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scribeth thus

Were they the three wonderful 22 floor white blocks? Of so these nice looking block were demolished because of construction problems. They looked good on the edge of a park. The sort of thing seen in the South of France.
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It wasn't.
That hits the TV and the national press frequently. The Welsh Streets as they all have Welsh names and were built by the Welsh. Wales is only a few miles aways so it figures. The right wing press are a making a big thing of this, so as to discredit a successful government.
I read comments by one of the people camapiaging to get them demolished. Most want them demolished and moved to the new proposed homes adjacent. He said: "However as conflict sells news,I shouldn't be surprised we have not be given fair & Unbiased media time. Even the Liverpool Echo are failing to publish any of our correspondence, whilst constantly publishing that of the anti- demolition groups, even now."
Not even the local papers or radio will give him any time, as he has been blocked out. A political agenda at work. Googled and got this.....
I have lived in the same Welsh Street for over 60 years and having worked as a volunteer street rep. for over 5 years on regeneration of the Princes Park area, I can tell you that the residents can't wait to move into new homes.We are fed up with all the hype about what lovely houses these are, put about by the so-called Welsh Street Homes Group, many of whose original, very few, supporters have now bought & moved into new properties on Clevedon Park, aleaving only 3 residents objecting to the proposals, who all live in Kelvin Grove nd DO NOT represent the Welsh Street residents
THE FACTS ARE : 11 streets are to be demolished from one side of Kelvin Grove to Admiral Street and new housing being built on the site for local residents, including local shops. The remaining Welsh Streets - Dovey,Teilo & Elwy, houses will be refurbished, together with the streets off Windsor Street down to Upper Warwick Street.
The Community will NOT be split up as suggested by WSHG opposition group,who have only lived in the area for about 6 years and only became involved about 18 months ago when Nina Edge became aware that her Kelvin Grove house was part of the demolition plan,who have never been involved with the community and are not known to the community, most of whom have lived here all their lives. Many residents had Improvement grants in the late 70's to have bathrooms built on & general improvements to their properties, however in spite of numerous damp proofing courses, these houses are in bad shape, now beyond saving and residents want something better & have been prepared to fight for that.
Originally three of the streets Treborth, Pengwern & South Streets were not included in the demolition proposals,but residents of those streets fought to be included in the demolition plans and over 200 Welsh Street residents lobbyed the Town Hall meeting of the Executive Board demanding that these 3 streets be included in proposals and won their case. One of the main problems in all this has been the credence & publicity given to the opposition, whilst failing to give a truly balanced view on TV & in newspapers to the views, needs & aspirations of the wider community. However as conflict sells news, I shouldn't be surprised we have not be given fair & unbiased media time. Even the Liverpool Echo are failing to publish any of our crrespondence, whilst constantly publishing that of the anti-demolition groups, even now. Despite all the hype we are now looking forward to brighter future for the Princes Park Area and it's residents in better homes & surroundings.
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Doctor Drivel wrote:
snip

All is becoming clear. Dribble is not a Southerner at all but a Liverpudlian. No wonder he won't say where he is from. Even he must see (I think)that Liverpool is not in the South of England.
snip
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