Hoping to de-modernise flat heating system.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Can anyone explain why they are so expensive?

[Andrew]

There are two separate 30amp fuses/mcbs for sockets.

How big is this flat ?.

[Andrew]

No it didn't. That's your false interpretation.

[ARW]

Because they no longer use bricks but energy cells?

[Andrew]

If money was no object, I would gut the whole place and dryline it with a couple of inches of 'celotex' and new plasterboard, then you would be able to be reasonably comfortable with E7 heating.

If leccy costs carry on upwards, you will get all the money back

10-20 years down the line ...

[Andrew]

Do you mean .... batteries ?

[Mike Halmarack]

2 bedrooms, large lounge, kitchen, bathroom, entrance lobby.

[Mike Halmarack]

That'll come in handy for bribing Heaven's gatekeeper.

[ARW]

Why would you want to get your money back if money was no object?

[Dave Liquorice]

pushing

B-) Love it.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Really? You live and learn. Pretty cheap, then. ;-)

[Robin]

On 15/09/2019 11:11, Dave Liquorice wrote: <snip>

The websites of sellers lauding panels over night storage are not within the ambit of the Advertising Standards Authority; and it shows.

[Andrew]

It's an added bonus, but it always strikes me as odd while watching homes under the hammer etc, and people go to the extent of stripping properties back to bare brick and replaster/dryline and don't seem to bother with insulation (even though Part L 2006 says you must, or has this changed ?).

People are more interested in having a solid gold bog than keeping their energy bills down.

[Dave Liquorice]

That well insulated, the "waste" heat from the occupants and appliances is going to be significant. The small low power panel heaters may well be enough to "top up" the warmth occasionally during the winter. Also with that level of insulation the place will warm up relatively quickly meaning that manual "on demand" heating system doesn't mean you wait hours for the place to warm up even from quite cool.

This maybe something else that the OP needs to consider. Were the people who did the change to panel heaters not as daft as has has been assumed? Perhaps the place *is* well inulated and thus the panel heaters are suffcient...

[Andrew]

Does the colour of the cat affect its heat emissions ?.

Are lazy cats worse than active cats ?.

How much does heat does a human being emit ?.

Come to think of it multiply that figure by 7 Billion and blame them all for global warming :-)

[spuorgelgoog]

Okay. As far as I can see:

From left to right:

1. Timeswitch: Unmetered live and neutral. Green earth. Switched neutral to rate cange terminal on meter.

1. Meter: Live and Neutral supply in from Henleys 3 and 4. Neutral and Live out to Henleys 2 and 1. Rate change Neutral to Timeswitch.

2. (White) Presumably heating CU with 3 heaters.

1. (Grey) Presumably main fuseboard with sockets, cooker, imm heater and lights. Below@ clock connector for doorbell transformer.

At bottom:

From right to left: incoming supply. Henley blocks (unmetered) to meter and timeswitch. Henley blocks (metered) from meter to 2 x fuseboards.

The easiest way of rewiring this for E7 or E10 is to replace the meter (so you might want to look at a smart meter tariff) which will have both 24-hour and off-peak-switched live outputs. Use a 4-pole Wylex type isolator from the meter and take the 2 lives to the 24-hour and off-peak fuseboards respectively. Use 1 Henley block to split the neutrals to the 2 fuseboards. The right-hand two Henleys remain as they terminate the incoming supply (badly - the Building Network Operator should really change this to a service cutout).

Carefull rearrangement might allow enough space for a dual tariff consumer unit where the existing timeswitch/meter/off-peak CU are, and put the new meter where the grey CU is. Otherwise you look a bit cramped for height for a new CU unless there is space above that board.

Using the existing boards you really need a contactor working from the timeswitch unmetered switched live (which is not wired up at the moment) and neutral to the contactor coil, then connect the contactor switch from Henley 1 (metered live) to Heating CU supply.

The contactor coil terminals which are from the unmetered supply should be sealed by the supplier to prevent abstraction.

Owain

[Dave Liquorice]

Old style ones did store heat and a fair bit of it, up to around 20 kWhrs (3kW for 7 hours...). The big problem is that they where crap at retaining that heat and lagged behind reality. Warm spell and the uncontrolled heat leakage made the place too hot, cold snap and they ran out of heat mid-afternoon.

Modern "high retention" storeage heaters don't leak anything like the heat old style ones do and have far better controls on heat output. They also have a permenant supply to provide "boost" heating outside the cheap off peak period.

Has anyone here got modern high retention storage heaters? When fully charged how hot is the outer casing? Our old ones are too hot to touch, which shows how much heat they are leaking...

[Robin]

Excellent as far as it goes. But doesn't even mention the possibility of using the cat's waste (and the naturally inevitable, occasional waste cat) in a biodigester :)

[spuorgelgoog]

17 queens and one tom could produce approaching 300 kittens a year.

If you get pedigree Maine Coon or similar they fetch about £1000 a kitten.

Even moggies, if you can get £6.60 per kitten, you break even and get the heating effect for free.

Owain

[Robin]

Probably an idiot-boy question: why would the meter need to be replaced for E7 or E10 when it is labelled "Multi Rate Single Phase Watt Meter"?