High level toilet cistern.

[Dave Plowman (News]

Outside loo sadly had the original Thomas T cast iron cistern replaced with an ugly plastic one - I'd guess in the 50s. Pan is original Victorian, though. When I decorated, I boxed the cistern in.

But it needs replacing. And I'd like something which looks good on its own. A cast iron one beyond my means - but a good looking white porcelain one would be fine.

Done lots of Googling, and they seem to vary from under 100 to 1000 quid. Found some nice looking ones on Ebay, but they all seem to be a kit with toilet pan.

Ideally, it would be porcelain with fancy support brackets supplied.

Going by supplied pics ain't that great, so advice from someone who's seen what I want in the flesh appreciated.

[Radio Man]

Don?t give up on cast iron.

I know someone who got an old one from a salvage yard for a song. It was in a terrible state but he had it sand or bead blasted, found an inner cistern which fitted inside (the old one probably wouldn?t hold water), treated the cast iron with the modern equivalent of red lead, painted it etc, and it looked original. It complimented the patterned original toilet with a wooden seat perfectly. It is a delight to use it! I understand the whole job cost a few hundred, including getting a plumber to fit it as he wanted it done perfectly.

[soup]

If decent and within your price range just use the cistern and re-sell the pan?

Go fishtank.

;O)

Note this is only posted as a 'joke' not a fan of complete water changes to cold water (not room temp) and the water that fills the cistern is usually chlorinated (Usually allowed for in having de-chlorination chemicals added or the water allowed time to 'off-gas the Chlorine naturally before fish are added).

Seriously reclamation yard is perhaps your best hope. There is bound to be someone out there that makes them new but they will probably charge an arm and a leg.

[newshound]

FWIW I would probably be looking at salvage yard too.

Although when I needed to replace a plastic cistern for a non-close coupled modern pan I found it as cheap (and much neater) to replace the whole lot with Wickes "basics" close coupled unit.

[Dave Plowman (News]

Far too much work, I'm afraid. Had it been the original I'd very likely have been up for overhauling it. But sourcing another and them having to do it all up more than I can be bothered with.

Thing is the loo had been modernised to an extent. All walls tiled, and a hand wash basin fitted. The loo itself has the waste exiting downwards into the concrete floor and as I say is original Victorian. Changing to a complete new modern one likely a lot of extra work - and leg room would be tight if it were moved out from the end wall.

I'm sure I could repair the existing one - but think a white porcelain one would look rather better than the boxed in existing. The snag being most seem to supply the bare cistern only (fine as a like for like replacement). Ornate brackets and the other bits needed come as a fitting kit with chrome downpipe. And cost more than the cistern. And I don't need the chrome downpipe.

[Radio Man]

Fair enough. In the case I mentioned, the objective was to achieve something in keeping with the throne.

[Jim GM4 DHJ ...]

I wouldn't bother trying to help....

[Dave Plowman (News]

I've seen porcelain Victorian ones too.

Copies - or similar - seem to be available. As are ally ones - at a price. Not come across new cast iron, though.

[Dave Plowman (News]

I've ordered up a white porcelain one from Scewfix. From a maker I've heard of - Ideal Standard. If they are still the same company, that is. They weren't the cheapest, but more upfront about what comes with it. Others seem to sell the bare cistern and expect you to search their site for all the other bits needed.

[Dave Plowman (News]

One for you inventive types.

Decided to remove the old cistern before the new arrives. Disconnected it all, and emptied it using my trusty old wet and dry vacuum.

But I'm not sure I can take the weight on my own. And local pals who I'd normally call on for help away on holiday.

Suggestions on how to do it on your own welcome. I'll be tiling the wall afterwards, so some extra holes in that won't matter.

It is secured by two large hex head screws going into the wall just inside the top of it.

[Tim Lamb]

In message [e-mail]>, "Dave Plowman (News)" [e-mail]> writes

Prop it up while you remove the screws? A ceramic cistern is not that heavy.

>

[Dave Plowman (News]

Bit difficult as there is an original thunder box under it.

Think screwing some large brackets to the wall (brick) under it may be the way. Or just wait until I can get some help.

Did wonder about rope and a hook screwed into a ceiling joist. But hoped someone had a really good way that would tickle my fancy. ;-)

[michael adams]

The old cistern is plastic.

The new one is porcelain.

As the new one is going to be considerably heavier than the old one, you will definitely need help with that in any case. So what's the big hurry ?

Isn't it a case of looking at an old cistern, or looking at a wall with two holes in it (assuming you manage to get it down o.k) until your pals return from holiday ?

Or as its plastic, at a pinch can't you saw bits off in situ, so as to lighten it ?

michael adams

...

[michael adams]

It isn't just the weight however, But the fact that injudicious stretching over the toilet bowl to lift the things in a confined space may be required.

Injudicious stretching can have dire consequences.

Approaching a set of traffic lights on the bike in order not to dismount I reached out my left arm to grab the pole. Result excruciating pain, but not with the arm bent, fortunately. Howver after a few days a double bicep muscle on my left arm became evident. Walking down a wet cobbled slipway by the river, and falling and sliding down feet forwards. An excruciating pain in the small of my back which went after about ten minutes and a pain in my left thigh. After a few days two muscles in my left thigh. Fortunately neither injury seems to have had any effect on basic strength. "Popeye" muscles I believe they're called. Apparently such muscles can be rebuilt at huge cost, of both time and money. As it they're cheaper than tattoos. What would have happened had I been carrying any sort of object while perched over a porcelain cistern heaven knows. A block and tackle directly above for both operations would seem the best bet IMHO. Bearing in mind that installing that may also require a bit of stretching.

michael adams

...

[Dave Plowman (News]

Think I was wrong about that. As it was black. It appears to be ceramic. But too modern looking.

I'm going to tile the wall before the new is fitted.

[Dave Plowman (News]

Exactly so, Michael. I'm a lot more careful about hurting myself than once was the case. The older you get the longer it takes for such things to heal.

The new one weighs about 30 kg. I'm thinking a single eye hook screwed into a ceiling joist would easily take the weight. And I've got a Haltrack hoist somewhere. But a single rope would likely be fine.

[michael adams]

I find its mainly lifting things with the arms outstretched - which would be the case reaching across a toilet bowl, you'd be cantilevering that weight using shoulder and back muscles which potentially could cause all sorts of problems. Rather than being able to get directly underneath and keeping things compact.

A ratchet hoist would be ideal. A rope around the sides of the cistern tied at the side. And then another rope looped through that, at the top. So with an old bit of carpet over the pan to prevent any damage on the way up or down. One man job.

Its sounds a lot of bother but maybe preferable to the alternative.

michael adams

...

[Dave Plowman (News]

Must be 30 years since I last fitted a new cistern.

I was expecting holes either side of it, one for feed, one for overflow. But only one - and no sign of a knockout. But oddly, does include a blanking plug in the kit of parts. Given only one place for the feed, just what is the purpose of that? And of course the feed is on the other side from the old one. And since it comes down from the ceiling, I'm going to have to remove the plaster board to make a neat job. Ah well.

So how does the overflow work? Built into the flushing unit?

The float unit is a Torbeck valve. All plastic. Last time I fitted one of those had problems getting a seal to copper. And it's going to need a 90 degree as close to the tank as possible, since the cistern is near the corner.

[Roger Mills]

You can get 90 degree connectors like this

- or solder or push-fit equivalents - which should do the job.

I don't like plastic threads on fill valves either, and have had one or two disintegrate and leak. You could always replace the supplied Torbeck valve with something like this

[Dave Plowman (News]

Thanks, Roger, I may well do. Given this cistern wasn't exactly cheap, was quite surprised at the flimsy internals.