Heat pump levy? Not sure if this is genuine.

[David]

Interesting reading if true.

Cheers

Dave R

[Alan Lee]

It is true. Manufacturers have a target to sell HPs vs. oil/gas boilers. Not sure if that is a percentage, or a set number. But WB have been particularly hit, as their HPs are not great, but their gas boilers are good, so they sell far more gas boilers than (their s**te) HPs. Other Makers are not so bad, as they sell less gas boilers, and have better HPs. HP only Makers are laughing away at the gas boiler makers.

[alan_m]

Wasn't there also a gas tax proposed to make electric only heating more (cost) attractive. This may have been put on the back burner for a while because of the massive price rises we have already seen.

[Brian Gaff]

What is that about its an ill wind that blows nobody any good?The whole issue seems to me to be daft when you look at what New Zealand have done, which seems to me to be evaluated the competition and only use the ones that are reliable. Brian

[Alan Lee]

No idea, I was on a course a few weeks ago when this was brought up. I assume it is a Government scheme to sell more heat pumps and reduce the sale of fossil fuel boilers. To be fair, the gas boiler makers have sat on their arses for years, when it was quite clear the gas is going to run out, and there were better ways to heat a home available. The Air-con makers have got into the heating market by modifying their product, most of the gas boiler makers didnt develop their own HP product, it has been bought in, or just rebadged from other makes, and they wonder why they arent selling many HPs, yet Nibe, Mitsubishi, Daikin etc are doing really well developing their own existing technology.

[Theo]

I have a Grant ASHP. It's made by Chofu of Japan and is a well designed efficient unit, except... Grant are really oil boiler vendors and the Grant-written instructions describe how to install it to look like an oil boiler, which is the worst way you can install a heat pump.

Having suffered such a mess from my installer who was playing it by the book, I found the Chofu instructions and rewired it the way they want you to do it. It's much, much, better now.

Theo

[Alan Lee]

Vaillant insist on the use of Glycol for warranty purposes, which is toally stupid, as it reduces efficiency by 10%, adds cost, adds servicing costs, and has only the slightest benenfit in very cold weather where there has been a power cut. Luckily, most Manufacturers seem to be sensible, and dont mandate the use of glycol, and, some even say it isnt recommended. Vaillant have a long history of fossil fuel boilers, it seems they havent caught up yet, even though their HPs are well regarded.

[Theo]

You need to either use glycol or fit anti-freeze valves. Otherwise the outdoor unit is at risk of freezing up during a time it is unpowered (not just a power cut, eg suppose there is an RCD trip while on holiday or a tenant leaving pulls the breaker). I can well imagine that they don't want to cover damage due to the outdoor unit freezing up, because that's a lot of burst pipework, probably a burst heat exchanger too... it'll get expensive fast.

Anti freeze valves are a better solution than glycol IMHO, since they'll dump the water in the cooling loop if it approaches freezing, but depends on having them at the lower point in the circuit - not always possible.

What do they recommend to prevent freezing up? I suppose they could word it as 'if you don't take precautions then you're not covered for frost damage', which would be fair enough.

Theo

[Fredxx]

Can you cite the drop in efficiency of 10%?

A small amount of glycol can be the difference between creating a slush or split pipes. Given the cost of replacing external pipework and heat-exchangers I'm not surprised.

[Alan Lee]

Anti-freeze valves. Idiot proof, no need for annual checks on them, no chemicals in the water. There is only a small percentage of HPs that need glycol, a typical family home is not one of them. It is only the outside unit that needs protection, so if the AF valves are put on the out/input pipes, they should be at the lowest point, so perfect for protecting the unit. If the house is liable to freeze, like an unattended holiday home, then they need to drain the water beforehand, or get some form of heating in there to protect against frost. The same applies for gas boilers too, they wont work without electric.

[Alan Lee]

Just google it, you'll see it why it is a 10% loss in efficiency. Here's a video all about it.

Anti freeze valves. The Makers are finally waking up and realising glycol isnt a good thing. Watch the vid, it explains it.