The neck has come away from the body of one of my guitars. It's an old Boosey and Hawkes, wire strung instrument, there's a lot of strain on the neck.
What kind of glue should we use to repair it?
Spouse thinks animal glue but we can't find a local supplier :-(
Mary
Years ago I successfully repaired a guitar broken in exactly the same way using a wood glue called "cascamite" which is now "extramite". Very good stuff.
Check on one of the music groups for posts by David Kilpatrick.
Sheila
I've cross-posted this reply to rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic. This sort of question comes up there very frequently and a number of experienced luthiers are on-hand to give guidance.
Foaming polyurethane carpenters glue or epoxy, and use a long setting one..
BUT I would be inclined to take it to a professional Lutier, if its worth anything at all.
Getting things aligned is non trivial. Also the truss bar - if it has such: most metal string guitars do) - may need resetting.
Howdy Mary,
Sounds like you are willing ro have a go at it. Clean all the old glue from the joint(s) first and then check the fit. It should br tight without any wiggle at all, prferably a press-snug fit. I'm guessing that this is not th case. If it has wiggle you will need to make some thin wood shims to fit into the joint and shave them down evenly till it is a snug fit. Then apply hide or fish glue, press together, clamp overnight. You could use Tightbond or similar glue but I'm gurssing that it was originally some animal glue so I'd suggest that you keep with that for originality.
Note that I'm skipping a _LOT_ of checks and steps here that a repair person would do, such as,
- is the rest of the guitar coming apart too
- has the body sides and top compressed such that the neck really need a full reset to get the angle right
- Does the fretboard need work too
- etc, etc, etc as they supposedly say in Siam
What about the fretboard? Is it also "off in ye 'ands" or still attached to the neck? If it is off be sure that you don't set the neck too deep or you will get a bump at the body.
Let us know how it turns out, Alan D.
Glue alone is not sufficient to hold a steel-string guitar neck against string tension. A properly designed (dovetailed) neck will hold its angle without glue; the glue is just to retain the neck in the body of the guitar. If the heel of the neck has pulled away from the body, the neck will need a professional re-set, or alternatively, the guitar may not be worth preserving as a player.
I'm afraid this may be one of those, "if you have to ask, it's not a D-I-Y project.
Oh, thanks Sheila,
Mary
Thanks,
Mary
>Thank you for replying.
No - that's why I mentioned the stringing :-)
It is dovetailed. The glue is the problem, I wondered if there were a more modern recommended adhesive than pearl glue, which we're having a problem finding localy.
The parts are intact, there's no shredding of the timbers, it's purely the glue which has gone. That's probably because it's been kept in too dry a room - and not been played for some time. I moved it so that we could paint the room and (in the words of the old song) it simply came to pieces in me 'and!
Well, we're prepared to have a go. Professional repair is expensive, in our experience, and we no longer know anyone we can trust to do a good job at a reasonable price. Our last builder/repairer went to the great workshop in the sky some years ago.
We've done a similar repair to a daughter's string bass, it's still good enough for her to play (occasionally) with professional orchestras. Why are they so often short of bassists? :-)
My guitar is a family heirloom, I hope to pass it to a grandson when he's mature enough to value it because my fingers are too arthritic to manage wire strings :-(
I appreciate your reply and shall consider it.
Mary
We used to use cascamite for gluing hive parts, it was excellent because it was waterproof. But once glued they were glued for ever, you don't necessarily want that for a guitar, there might be a time when you need to take it apart.
Well in that case teh guy who recommended Cascamite is probably the one to go for. That or aerolite 306. If it still exists.
Cascamite is a casein glue Aerolite was a urea-formaldehyde catalysed with formic acid. Polyurethane glues may be too flexible, and epoxies may not be particularly good, though I think they would work all right - tone may be affected.
Listen to what Alan says. That is absolutely the right approach. (You can't just glue it back together as-is and expect anything but a subsequent failure.) Oh, and also, something I'm sure Alan intended to add is to clean any old glue residue from the mating surfaces before re-gluing.
Hi Mary I have a number of (modern) books on Guitar making and repair. One day I shall make my own... They pretty much all recommend using aliphatic resin for this joint. Aliphatic resin is a variant on ordinary PVA glue - it has a light yellow colour and doesn't creep after setting, unlike ordinary PVAs. It should be obtainable from a
*decent* hardware shop.Take note of what other people say about removing old glue, cramping the work up etc.
A couple of good books:
(The latter is currently 98p on Amazon marketplace!)
HTH Jon N
Is animal glue the same as hide glue?
Anyway, you might gain a lot of info from frets.com, especially these pages:
Best of luck with the project...
The message from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:
Cascamite is good.
I'd be inclined to be super-cautious. The various adhesives that have been mentioned in this thread have entirely different properties and once applied (especially the more modern varieties) may not be readily removed and the effects irreversible.
If the instrument has a significant value, seeking specialist (guitar) professional help is probably your best course of action. And, get several professional opinions.
Regards JonH
This stuff is simply incredible.
Donw all that.
It is a snug fit.
I want to use animal glue - because that has the best properties for the job.
No.
No.
No.
I've done a thorough check on all the ceteras and it's in good condition.
Yes.
I shall.
Thanks for your time,
Mary
Yes, sourcing it was the problem but someone suggested an on-line source and I'm also investigating the local art shop. I know they sell rabbit glue for sizing canvas and frame-making equipment so they might have animal glue. A friend has told us of a local violin repair workshop so we'll investigate that too. If it came to it we could make our own from a daughter's cow hide :-)
We have a proper, made-for-the-job glue pot. Spouse's father used to make violins. He's dead so we can't ask him!
Thanks, but if a job's worth doing ... it's the traditional ritual as much as anything else I suppose :-) There's something satisfying about using a proper glue pot.
Mary
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