Good, strong gloves, but not leather?

[John Cartmell]

Not always vegetarian!

Try that and forget the gravy and the fat. ;-(

[Tim]

"Vegetarian" (without further explanation) does not preclude eating cheese.

[Sam Nelson]

Anyone that eats anything made with the milk of X ought to be prepared to eat the meat of X as well. You don't get cows' milk without calves, and the male calves won't grow up to produce milk. If you drink cow's milk or eat cheese made with cows' milk, you're implicitly condoning the slaughter of young male cattle for food, so you might as well eat the beef that results.

[Séan Connolly]

It does if it has animal renet in it...

[Mary Fisher]

I know, it rarely is, but the restaurants either don't know that or don't say anything about it.

Of course.

We very rarely eat out thesedays although we eat lots of meat at home. In fact there's only one place we're prepared to go, one we trust.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

Do you know how cheese is made?

Mary

[Mr Fizzion]

Are you sure about that? I thought you could kill your own cow for your own consumption. A farmer I know in the new forest kills his own pigs for his own use.

He also sells pork and pork sausages from his farm for which he uses his own pigs that have been sent to an abbatoir 100 miles away and then sent back. (Seems like a real waste of a journey).

Mr F.

[John Cartmell]

There is no legal definition of 'vegetarian' which is the reason restaurants can get away with murder. The one definition that has long-term validity is that of the Vegetarian Society who coined the word in the first place. You'll find food preparers and restaurants using their own logos to suggest the idea of 'vegetarian' with varying degrees of concern (or non-concern) about the meat or meat products included in the product or its preparation - not to mention possible cross-contamination during cooking. As Mary suggests - the only real answer is to DIY your food.

Cheese can be produced using rennet - a product derived from the slaughter of an animal - or a vegetarian equivalent. Obviously only the latter can get the 'seal of approval' though there would be other considerations as well for the VegSoc. Vegans (one step beyond vegetarian) won't eat cheese or any other dairy products at all. Vegetarians - Vegetarian Society definition - are choosy about dairy products; details on the VegSoc site at

[Mr Fizzion]

As John Rumm pointed out you can get chainmail gloves. I have seen these in use by chefs in oyster restaurants. I wouldn't want to work near any electrical installation while wearing these, however, especially something capable of supplying a high current like a car battery...you'd fry your hands off!

Mr F.

[John Cartmell]

That's a separate matter and is an argument that divides vegetarians from vegans. Some people regard being a vegetarian as just one step they can take in a particular direction. Others regard meat reduction in their diet as a step towards being a vegetarian. Saying you must make an all or nothing choice immediately is an argument well-used by the meat industry to attempt to turn people away from reform of their diet. There is no such requirement whether your reform is for health or moral reasons and most reasonable religious prohibitions expect the occasional lapse.

[Tim]

If you say so. You could still be a vegetarian though.

[Tim]

Yes. There's a number of methods, some produce cheese suitable for a vegetarian diet, some don't.

[Chris Bacon]

Go to Wilkinsons and buy a few pairs of "canvas" gloves at 99p/pr.

[Sam Nelson]

Yes, but fairly pointlessly so, unless you're one of these people that just doesn't like meat.

[Mary Fisher]

Indeed. There are very many degrees and several reasons for choosing one's diet.

Mary

>

[Mary Fisher]

Most useanimal rennetwhich, to apurist, wouldn't be acceptable.

Depending, of course, on what degree or purist s/he is :-)

Mary

[Sam Nelson]

Not quite. As far as I can tell, a fair number of vegetarians are that because they don't want animals killed to feed them. That doesn't preclude using `non-lethal' animal products---eggs, for example. My point is that dairy products are indirectly lethal to male cattle.

All or nothing? Absolutely not. But as long as there are people drinking cows' milk, there'll be an excess of male cattle around for no useful reason other than to kill for beef.

There wasn't the slightest hint of any religious connection in what I wrote above, nor any intention for there to be such.

[Mary Fisher]

Our daughter has to take her animls to the slaughterhouse to be killed. She's allowed to butcher the carcase for her own consumption.

It's bad on welfare grounds and on environmental ones. It doesn't even make sense in cross infection terms, which is HMG's justification. Anyone selling animals to Tesco, for instance, has to use the slaughterhouse decreed by Tesco, some animals have to be ssent more than 200 miles away (BBC Radio 4 Farming Today, today).

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

Mail gloves are produced for use by butchers ... :-))))))))))

Mary

[John Cartmell]

You didn't give any hint. I covered the three main reasons that people cite for reduced meat eating, eating a vegetarian or vegan diet, or choosing an even more restrictive option (eg fruitarian). Vegetarian is very much a middle position between two extremes and far from an all or nothing choice. It's likely close to the diet we evolved eating hence its generally beneficial effect on health.