For those with Car ABS and ECU problems;!..

[tony sayer]

Grimly .. how did that manifest itself, and what was "wrong" with the re cycled copper?...

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember tony sayer saying something like:

Mostly corroded connections to crimps and sometimes wire breaks where the insulation had allowed moisture to permeate through. A bit late for it now, but if you had a look on many Japanese wiring looms of the 60s and 70s, you'd find the copper had corroded not just at the ends, as expected, but all the way through the length of the wire. I put this down to the re-cycling of scrap copper, with impurities above the level that would have been acceptable in Europe. Also, they tended to have wire gauges that were just about acceptable for the current going through them, making the quality problem rear its head earlier than it should have.

Their aluminium castings on bikes weren't too hot either, for the same reason, I'm sure (recycling). What the Japanese seemed to do was improve the protection, rather than improve the quality and cost of the metals. They concentrated on better insulation and shrouding, with much more attention paid to securing the loom, and with alloy castings they depended on laquer coatings. This has been going on for decades now. I've no complaints about the electrics on my ShiteOldToyota (1989 Carina II), as I'm aware of the tricks they employed and can work within the limits of the system. Any repairs need to be protected to the same standard (or better)as the original and an eye kept on likely trouble spots.

[The Natural Philosopher]

NO.

I suspect its a subspecies of this:

is well known, if not so well understood.

I suspect myself its electrochemical attack of copper due to three things: damp, a salt, and a voltage.

precisely. There was nothing wrong with the copper, but they needed to keep the damp and the salts out better, that's all.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Since I do quite a bit of work on old cars, this is common. But how or why I dunno. One cable in a loom will have it - another not. Cable from the same maker. But not as bad as shown in that article - more just a coating on the individual strands. Which makes a good insulator...

[The Natural Philosopher]

the key is whether the insulator allows wet salt in, and whether its in the negative side of something that can leak..

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher saying something like:

Which doesn't address the problem in cars. At all.

And shit wire.

[The Natural Philosopher]

No. Not shit wire.

Which is the point.

[tony sayer]

In article , Grimly Curmudgeon scribeth thus

Some impurity surely?.

After all Copper is copper its what's mixed in with it ?...

[Tim Lamb]

In message , The Natural Philosopher writes

Umm.. aren't apocryphal tales told of bodywork corrosion when Ford changed the battery polarity on their cars?

Tinned multistrand cable is OK on my tractors which have -ve earth.

regards

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher saying something like:

Ah, right. So, you're saying that all recycled copper wire in Japan was of the utmost purity? What a load of c*ck.

[The Natural Philosopher]

exactly.

Needs to be mixed with pretty high levels of some corrosive salt or acid before its gonna do it in.

and re-smelting will slag that out mostly.

[The Natural Philosopher]

No, I am saying its inconceivable that corrosive agents, rather than mere traces of other metals,. would survive re-smelting.

[Adrian]

The Natural Philosopher gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

You'd be wrong.

Back in the late '80s, Citroen had a lot of problems with the cylinder blocks on diesel turbo CXs going porous, between the combustion chambers & water jacket. Turned out to be poor quality recycled scrap being used by the foundry in India - which was also used by M-B and BMW, but for some reason they seemed to escape. Mebbe better quality control, mebbe just that those cars were more likely to use distilled water rather than tap water in the coolant, so the impurities didn't corrode out.

Either way - the cause was exactly what you say is "inconceivable". Shit that survived re-smelting.

[Ron Lowe]

Sure it's not the clock-spring ( rotary coupler ) to the steering-wheel air-bag?

That's the usual thing...

[The Natural Philosopher]

aluminium melts at a rather diferent temperature top copper

Cylinder heads are cast.

Copper wire is drawn.

Apples are not oranges.

Believe your own BS then

[Adrian]

The Natural Philosopher gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Which is all very nice, but we're talking about cast iron blocks.

Oh, and iron melts about 500degC hotter than copper, so - if anything - you'd think that the impurities would be more likely to burn out, not less.

Is it casting sand that you have your head in?

[Theo Markettos]

Phone up Infineon's distributor and ask for a sample?

(What's the part number, OOI?)

Theo

[Jim]

Unfortunately not, it's been hooked up to VAG-COM and gives error 65535 "Internal Control Module Memory Error".

[Duncan Wood]

Dull. You could try asking BBA