Flat battery

[Andrew]

No it didn't. Normal 2-stroke with the carb behind the cylinder feeding into the crankcase

[Tim+]

Clever gadget!

An odd lump but not typical of a fracture.

Tim

[Tim+]

What?s your issue with it being 2-stroke? Or is it being 2 stroke and having a decompressor valve? I?ve already posted a link showing some of them did have such a valve.

Tim

[Bob Eager]

I had that on a Francis Barnett 250 (Villiers)mid 1960s.

[Dave Plowman (News]

Why would you need one on a tiny engine?

[Dave Plowman (News]

But not to aid starting, as was being discussed. Many will be familiar with the 197, which was fitted to several makes of bike. And was easy to turn over using the kickstart.

[Tim+]

Ask an owner. I?ve already pointed out that some of these engines did indeed have such a valve.

Tim

[ARW]

I have the same problem with my car. However I do not use a trickle charger just a normal charger such as

that I use for about 8 hours every 3 weeks unless I have used the car.

I just leave the bonnet resting on the extension lead and lock the car.

[ARW]

But it's not a good idea to drain the battery and jump start it all the time. You are then relying on the alternator to charge the battery from flat which is not recommended.

[newshound]

Just a bit surprised to see that on a "cooking" 197. But probably very helpful in priming the crankcase and cylinder with mixture, given the weakness of flywheel magnetos!

[Dave Plowman (News]

My Francis-Barnett didn't have one. And had the Villiers 197. It was as easy to start as any other small motorcycle. Valve lifters were more common on large single cylinder 4-strokes.

[AnthonyL]

I'm sorry - it was a decompression lever. I'd had that head to bits more than once and there was a separate valve which the lever lifted.

As to why - good question. I tried it and then didn't use it as the engine started better without. I can only guess it was meant for a lighter person or as a "luxury" item. The Norman was quite a posh m/bike for its day. The fact that it would barely do 60mph and the three pronged spark plugs regularly sooted up and shorted was quite secondary and I recall my friend's Honda 50 could keep pace. His of course had an electric starter. Why on earth would you need one of those on a 50cc machine - but then it had indicators too.

[AnthonyL]

I have no idea what the correct term might have been, I'd always knownit as a decompression lever and it opened a little valve. Another item to maintain and another seat to keep clean so it stayed closed as the device wasn't really needed.

[AnthonyL]

Well found! (Thumbs up)

[Martin Brown]

During the summer you can use a solar panel to keep it topped up.

That is what I do for the now seldom used second car runabout. It hasn't been any real distance since lockdown began. No use though in winter - not enough sun.

Many people seem to have knackered their car batteries as a result of the lockdowns and not looking after their car battery. Some vehicles will flatten a fully charged 40Ah battery in under 3 weeks.

[Dave Plowman (News]

The Lidl/Aldi one makes much sense. About £14. About 4 amp output which is enough to start a car after an overnight charge. Changes to a maintenance charge when the battery is full - so can be left on indefinitely. And small enough to keep in the glove box. CTEK do similar at about 3 times the price.

[Paul]

The problem with some of the automotive batteries, is they are not of the "deep discharge type".

Running regular automotive batteries down to zero a couple times, is all it takes to ruin them.

For a given amp-hour capacity, the deep discharge batteries are physically larger. They're used in golf carts for example, where there was a lack of any battery management. The old golf cars were not smart enough to switch off when the battery was low.

There are a couple kinds of cheap chargers. There are some that have a button to be pushed, to kick off a charging cycle. You don't want that kind, for long term storage.

The other kind, sense when the voltage hits a certain level, then they charge the battery back up. There is no button to push, so no human intervention required. Mine works that way, and that is practically the only feature it has got.

The chargers, in the advert, should say what range of Ah they handle. Say your battery is 60Ah. Then not only should the charger have a current rating (like "3 amps"), but it should also say what range of Ah it is for.

That's the mistake I made when I bought mine. Just about any number of amps, can charge a battery. Like 1 ampere of current might charge a battery in 60 to 72 hours. But if the charger has a desulphation cycle, that is a function of current flow too, and more current is needed. If the charger says 20Ah to 100Ah battery size, then you would expect the conditioning cycle to cover a 60Ah battery. The charger I bought, is really only large enough for motorcycle batteries, so the desulphation is not likely to work. But my charger still keeps the battery topped up, even if long term the battery might not be as healthy as it could be.

"Pulse Intelligent Charger 5 Stage 1A-15A 6V/12V Auto Stop Charging Function with Bar LED Screen for Scooter Car"

"Two Charging Mode : one botton switchs 2 modes

Car Mode is for battery capacity 32AH-200AH Motorbike mode is for battery capacity within 6AH-32AH

super easy to operate it"

"No load mode <=== Necessary during battery analysis ? Constant current mode <=== Stage1 charging (battery very low) Constant voltage mode <=== Stage2 topping charge Float charge mode <=== Voltage maintenance Turbulence mode <=== Avoid stratification in liquid electrolyte battery "

I might not buy that one, but at least it illustrates some concepts. The interfaces leave a lot to be desired, in terms of readouts.

For outdoor usage, the battery charger should be "temperature compensated". And the adverts for a few, list that as a feature. Again, not on the charger I bought, which charges to the same endpoint, no matter what the ambient temperature is. This is more of a concern in climate with large temperature swings. When a charger is "temperature compensated", it fills the battery to 100% full... for the temperature in question. Lead acid batteries are quite sensitive to temperature, in terms of the definition of "full" or the definition of "capacity". That's why the charts for lead acid batteries, have temperature as a variable. But cheap charger designs don't care about this.

Expensive commercial chargers (half a grand to a grand), there is a temperature probe and two wire lead. And the temperature probe can be fixed to the battery terminal as a way to get a temperature indication from the battery itself. For bargain units, if they have temp compensation, temp is measured inside the body of the charger (and who knows, it could be warm in there).

Paul

[Dave Plowman (News]

No such thing as a deep discharge lead acid. Not if you want a decent life.

Look at the warranty offered with leisure etc batteries, compared to car ones.

[newshound]

Helps to prime the crankcase and cylinder with mixture. On my Venoms, after tickling I would do 3 x 180 degree on kickstart with the decompressor lifted, then set it on compression with lifter down, then another 180 degrees with it lifted before doing the main "kick".

[AnthonyL]

Interesting. Whilst mine wasn't a trial bike it still would not have occurred to me to use it on a downhill section of road. Might have changed that phut phut phut sound that I seem to recall.