Fitting loft ladder - what doe this diagram mean?

[mike]

Just fitting a Wickes wooden loft ladder and I'm puzzling over what this chart/diagram combination is saying. (There are no written instructions.)

X represents the length of the frame, it's 113cm. To be =>115cm, it would have to represent something else. But what?

There are twelve rungs to the ladder (may have to cut one off for height adjustment).

Vertical floor to ceiling height is 242cm.

Do the numbers between 272 and 284 have something to do with the ladder length?

Apologies if this is a really dumb question and I'm missing something obvious, but it's so far escaped me.

[TheOldFellow]

Fair question. Does anyone ever understand picturese? Almost all 'stuff' comes with picturese instructions these days. At least with English words WE understood it. I think I'd even prefer German or French to picturese! I recently bought and expensive German 'widget', and had to make four calls to the UK agent to find out what the hell the pictures of things with exclamation marks were.

The Table refers to the distance from the hatch to the floor (reach?), I think, and the bolt sets the slope for different 'reach' requirements.

R.

[Davey]

I agree, as much as can be determined from the pic. It doesn't allow for X to be anything less than 115 cm, but it is said to be 113 cm. Like so many other things nowadays, by trying to make the instructions understandable by everyone, they make them understandable by nobody. Often, I have come across instructions, even written ones, put together by somebody who clearly knows the equipment inside out, but can't realise that he is writing for somebody who has never seen it before. Make It Simple, Stupid!

[The Other Mike]

Presumably because if it were then you wouldn't be able to fit the folded up ladder into the loft hatch opening

[Chris J Dixon]

I wonder if there are any clues on other parts of the instructions? Is anything cut to size or otherwise variable?

The left-hand leader line for the "X" dimension is ambiguous - it could be taken from the left hand part of the metal mechanism, or the inside of the timber frame. In any case, since the dimension appears to relate to the ladder as supplied it is unclear how this could vary.

Chris

[John Rumm]

A longer ladder? I would guess they sell (at least) two different subtle variations of the ladder - one a tiny bit longer than the other. The shortest will have an X dimension of 115cm.

The restraining bracket hole used will dictate the maximum steepness of slope of the ladder and hence also the maximum ceiling height it can cope with. So pos 1 lets it dangle nearer the vertical and hence also cope with the ceiling height of up to 281cm. Pos 3 allows a less steep angle, and hence reduction in maximum height.

I think in practice the answer is, install it then trim to length and set the restraint position to achieve the best combination of ladder angle and reach, while trying to keep the floor to first run step size the same as the remaining rung spacings.

[Harry Bloomfield]

mike explained on 01/09/2011 :

Obviously the bracket with three holes limits the angle of the ladder, so the number must mean the height in cm that the ladder has to reach. It is not clear where the measurement should be made from - but obviously down to the floor. The three holes give adjustment so that the rungs of the three ladder sections are level with each other.

I would be inclined to fit, then adjust the bracket later to get the rungs level.

[Graham.]

MISS?

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

[mike]

Thanks for all the replies.

I ended up trying it in each position before cutting it, to see which would give the best compromise between level steps and first rung spacing. (If there was a way of working it out theoretically from the table, I didn't find it.)

In the event, there was very little variation between the three positions and cutting the ladder to length in any position coincided with either the top, middle or bottom of a step -- so I just picked what I thought was the best (or least worst) option.

I had to re-fit the ladder to the trap door because the instructions didn't make it clear which of two sets of holes to use. I fitted the hand rail three times before I found the right combination. Fortunately, I ignored the cutting instructions that said to measure from the second section to the floor and divide by 2cm (it should have said subtract 2cm). And installing the springs was like some World's Strongest Man event, except they don't usually do those whilst balanced on some 3x2s over a rickety lath-and plaster ceiling: someone on the Wickes website reviews suggested using a tent peg puller but since I didn't have one, I used a mole grips.

Overall, not a bad product but some of the most frustrating and least helpful instructions I've ever seen.

[Davey]

That is one version, but:

others.

[PeterC]

I fitted something similar - in fact it could almost be the same product. Had to strip it as I couldn't lift the whole thing in to position and then couldn't have kept it there to fit the screws. Realised that a). I wasn't strong enough to stretch the springs and b). the loading on the ladder would be too much. Rigged a pair of steps and some rope, closed the hatch with me in the loft and managed to get the springs on. Trying to fit the springs with the hatch open looked like invoking an almighty pingfuckit!

[Davey]

I have a mental view of somebody standing on a ladder, fitting a spring, releasing it, and then being propelled upwards through the roof!

[PeterC]

More likely through the tread and landing floor! Ladder is rated for 150kg, I weigh ~85kg, spring needs 100kg force when ladder is down. My legs could've done it but not my arms. I was a bit worried about getting stuck in the loft, as there's no-one else in the house, so took a lot of care to ensure that I could re-open the hatch.

[Davey]

Two years later, somebody opens the loft hatch and sees this skeleton still in position trying to lift the hatch!

There's a horror story in here somewhere.