Farm track/ footpath/unadopted.

I know this is legal but tried a solicitor ( three) and have conflicting information.

Simple

1) I live on the bottom of a farm track. 2) the track is also a public footpath. 3) tractors go up and down all the time and have churned up the lane. 4) as a result of (3) a man hole cover has become exposed on the opposite side of the lane in front of my driveway. My driveway misses it ( I maintain my driveway) 5) manhole cover ( and drain) are not mine. Don't know whose they are ( bust guess? Next door and illegal) 6) The man hole cover is off and the deep hole beneath exposed. 7) who has to repair it?

Originally 20 years ago I was told I am responsible for the lane in front of my drive out as far as the middle of the lane.

Lane is unadopted, owner not known. It is not a highway or a public road. No traffic , only tractors.

This is on the far side of the lane. Am I responsible or not? Any help would be gratefully received.

Reply to
sweetheart
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so far so good.

That somehow does not surpise me.

So its not your problem.

Bust guess? D cup from general demeanour?

No one has to repair it.

sounds weird to me.

I dont think anyone could ever accuse you of being responsible, no.

Do nothing.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Who'd know?

Look down it, see which way the drain runs and whether there's any water flowing through it.

Have you tried the local water supplier or drains body? They usually have plans of their drains and would repair it if it's theirs. The plans are useful to have in the event that you have a drain problem.

Doubt it, but I'd run some water down your foul & rain water drains (might be the same) just to ensure your drains don't run through it. If they do, you may want to get it covered before the tractors block it with mud and your bogs runneth over. Or you get a rat infestation from it.

Reply to
Onetap

Are you on mains drainage, or being at the end of a fram track, have you got a septic tank?

Probably the water authorities main drain; I'd ring them and report it. If it's theirs, they'll fix it.

Reply to
Onetap

In addition to the other postings on drains, since it is a public footpath which has perhaps become hazardous, your local district council should have an access officer who would be interested. Or start with anyone on the parish council who should also have an interest.

Even if the farmers *don't* own the land but only have an access right, they should know who the lane belongs to. And having an access right does not give them the right to damage a public footpath.

Reply to
newshound

Has the takeover by the water authority of all shared drains happened yet? If so, it's the water board's problem, is it not?

Reply to
John Williamson

My drains run to the back of my property and I have a septic tank. I know wheremy drains are.

I was never aware anyone else had drains anywhere. There is no record of it.

Thanks

but I'd run some water down your foul & rain water drains (might be the same) just to ensure your drains don't run through it.

I know its not mine.

Reply to
sweetheart

I have a septic tank. My land drains and tank are out to the fields at the rear.

This being uncovered on the front was a surprise. Hence I dont know who or where it comes from - other than my neighbour may ( I dont know, I am guessing) have run their drains into the storm drain in the main road via this. There are no sewer mains nearby.

There isn't a main drain in the lane, that's the problem. There is a main storm drain in the road, half a mile away.

Reply to
sweetheart

No, but no doubt someone will disagree. We had this in our back entry until the field was built on at which point they just moved the drains and never asked us so one assumes it was someone elses! I was going to be evil and suggest dumping a few tons of ready mixed down the hole and see whose toilet overflowed but that might be considered a bit anti social!

Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

That last point depends on whether the public footpath is over private land or not. If its owned then it could be the owners responsibility to fix it and d maintain the track including kicking the arses of the farmers who use it to at least fill up the ruts.

Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

Thats a problem. No one does know ( at least I dont and no one is owning up. The manhole and cover wereburried under2ftof soil and tarmac untilthe ran , water off the fieldsand tractor wheels churning eroded the surface and exposed it.

I lived here 20 years and had no idea therewasa drain thereat all. It was finally exposed and came off ( its squift) in the winter, but some loud mouthed walker/oik / grockle abused me and said it was my responsibility as it wasoutside my house and I would be liable if her chavvy kid fell down it and I tried asking solicitors but they dont know and have no solutions.

No known owner of the lane in land registry.

The farmers use it to access fields but none own it. Its only a track, one farm vehicle wide. There is only one other house in the lane. If it were not for the man hole and the cover being off, the road would still be passable.

I thought maybe someone on DIY may have come across this in their own lives and could know.

Reply to
sweetheart

On Tuesday 16 July 2013 14:22 John Williamson wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Yes - that happened late last year...

Reply to
Tim Watts

If it doesn't stink of sewage, I'd GUESS it may be a land drain system, draining into a local brook. Probably dry in the present weather but, if that is what it is, the adjacent fields would benefit from it, assuming it isn't blocked.

Follow the line of the drains and see whether there is an outfall in the first brook/ditch downhill.

Or send a picture to the farmer(s) and ask if they know, they may not be aware of its existence.

I came across land drains (think that's what they were) when digging foundations for an extension (house built 1935), parallel earthenware pipes laid at about 10' intervals. Strangely, they were 6 or 7 feet down.

No-one knew they were there, nor were they on any records. There was water trickling through them.

Reply to
Onetap

No, standard. Somebody has to own the land a road is on. Ownership is separate from adoption. The standard boundary of a plot of land is to the centre of the bounding roads unless the roads were explicitly split off from the plots when parcelled out, or have explicitly been bought by, eg, the local council.

Adopting a highway adopts the surface where the highway passes and the rights to pass over and responsiblity to maintain those rights and the adopted structure. It does not transfer ownership of the land the adopted highway passes over. When estates of new-build houses are built the planning permission ususally includes a condition to transfer ownership of the road(s) upon adoption, but it is not automatic; even adoption is not automatic. You can often tell because the unadopted bit tends to be surfaced differently (eg with block paving in my experience).

JGH

Reply to
jgh

Leave alone. You need to look at your house deeds. They will show boundaries and easements etc.

There is some very peculiar legislation if the lane is attached/pertaining to common land.

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Reply to
harryagain

The deeds tell me that the boundary is my drive. The lane is not mentioned. There isnt any common land as far as I am aware.

It is a public footpath. I dont actually have to go up the footpath and I cross the lane diagonally to get into my drive.

The manhole ( which doesnt actually affect my entry or exit from my drive) is in the lane outside on the opposite side of the lane to that which I was told I had responsibility for.

There is nothing written about my being responsible for the lane - asthey say, "the deed is silent"

I have seen the easements ( most of which have only been attached as a result of useage) for the fields which are up the lane behind me and they dont say anything either, other than they " allow access to the fields".

I know there could be contention over that because the lane is a public footpath, not a road ( as the council told me) and no one is allowed up it by vehicle. They should travel no more than 25 yards up the lane and then park their vehicles off the lane and walk! No one does!! This even applies tomy neighbour whose drive is 150 yeards up the lane. My drive is around 4 ft on the lane but I can actually get into my drive without touching it if I have to.

I dread to think what could happen if a tractor went up/ came down the lane and hit a walker. The lane isnt wide enough for the walker to get out of the way ( and they might get mown down not seen in a tractor).

As I said, I didnt know about any drains. I have looked down as the tractors have knocked the cover off but thereis aload of rubble offthe lane in the bottom so I cant see where it goes.

The thing that strikes me is that no one will own up to having this drain and no farmer has complained about the big hole either. Occassionally someone gets out of their car/ tractor and puts it back.

The only moaner was the grockle who loud mouthed me. Probably because I am the only one who wont say boo to a goose. Had she said it to the farm contractors they would have told her where to get off. My neighbour doesnt take prisoners either.

Its worried me. She said she would sue me and I wasliable as itsin front of my home. I tried to find out. The councilsay no one should be going up except on foot and it is passable because my half of the lane is maintained. SW water say they have no record of it. I was told I should fence it off and light it as a hazard but how?

Its in the lane.The tractors and my neighbour come over it, it would block their way,and they would soon make mincemeet of any barrier. Similarly, I cant close the lane to even attempt a repair. I am worried.

Reply to
sweetheart

We live at the end of a similar farm track, which divides our property from the farmer's next door. The track is also a public footpath. The farmer uses it for access to his fields, and we use it for access to our property. We have a right-of-way over the track, stated in our deeds. Neither of us own the track, and AFAIK, neither of us has any responsibility for it. Another neighbour who also abuts the track further along says it is common land, although quite what that means in this context, I'm not sure. It may just be rather loose use of the term, rather than the specific meaning of 'common land'. A stile at the end of the track is maintained by the local parish council as part of their responsibility for footpaths.

I would think your deeds should indicate the extent of your responsibility, but if they're like our deeds, they're lodged with your solicitor and not readily accessible. How close to this manhole is the farmhouse/dwelling opposite? In other words, is it reasonably close and possibly linked to their sewage system, or is the dwelling sufficiently far away for this to be unlikely?

Is it a proper, heavy manhole cover, cast iron, that drops into a close-fitting frame, or just a much lighter weight inspection cover? Is it not possible just to shove the cover back over the hole?

As well as all the other points made here, have you peered down the hole, using a torch if necessary. It's just possible it's not a drain, but access to a water authority stop tap, or even an old well, both long since forgotten. There are several wells around us, dug to supply the local farm properties with water for domestic and agricultural use a century or so ago, before mains water was introduced. Not particularly deep, say 15 - 20 feet. We have one such in our garden, used now to take the outflow from our septic tank, and has been so used for several decades.

If a footpath runs past this hole, I would think it's your local parish council's responsibility. Cornwall is littered with old mine shafts (as you will know), and occasionally one is discovered next to a footpath, and AIUI, it's the parish council's responsibility to make it safe.

Reply to
Chris Hogg

I have my deeds as I own my house outright and the bank sent them to me when I paid them off. It says nothing aboutmy being responsible for the lane, just that I have right of way across it to my drive.

How close to this manhole

Quite possibly. The people living there are not anything to dowith the fields. Its a relatively modern house . I thought it had a septic like the rest of us but it may not. However, if it is tied to a drain ( and it could be, I have hearda rumour from one of the old villagers), then it isnt legal and it isnt in the sewer. its in a storm drain taken away down the road..

Its not in a metal frame. It was completely burried ubtil the water erosion over the long winter ( this year and last) took the lane cover away. The lane was mainly mud compacted and a scatter of tarmac across my end ( put by me). The cover fitted over the hole. The hole is brick and with heavy traffic could crumble. Rubble is already tumbling down off the lane in the hole when the cover is dragged off.

Its too heavy for me, but clearly someone puts it back. Its back on again now, so I couldnt see down. I heard water running down it around five minutes ago. OH ( ex plumber) reckons it is a drain/ sewer.

With difficulty for me.

It could be anything honestly I think somone plugging their sewerage into a storm drain rather than building a septic ( a bit iffy like) is most likely.

Yes, I do know this. Almost every field has a shaft in it up the lane. But the adit runs over the road according to my deeds/surveys and local say so. I do know about septics in wells, I think I have one, but mine is out onto the back not the front. The front and the lane are away from shafts etc.

There is a spring on my property but that runs opposite to this too. The village well is about 200 yards down the road in the village - in the garden of an old cottage.

I dont want to cause any one trouble so I am inclined to leave it since everyone here thinks it isnt likely to be my responsibility. I am just a bit worried. OH isnt a great deal of help.

Thanks for the advice.

Reply to
sweetheart

Now that sounds like a job for an over zealous thick as pig shit pen pusher armed to the teeth with a red pen and no mates:-)

Reply to
ARW

Over recent years, our local shopping centre has been demolished and re-built. During the rebuilding a large quantity of concrete must have gone missing - it was found blocking 25m of a 525mm sewer, running 7m down, right through the crossroads at the centre of town!

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They eventually gave up trying to clear it from the inside, but couldn't dig down to it because of all the services above. Finally they brought in a specialist team from Ireland to tunnel under all the services above it and down to the pipe for replacement. The road was closed for months.

SteveW

Reply to
SteveW

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