External WiFi aerial or full access point?

[The Natural Philosopher]

well most wifi is 2.4 still

[Fredxx]

These days most devices have a 5GHz capability. And it's generally faster if you can get half decent reception.

[Fredxx]

Suggests "Approx 0.22dB loss per Metre for 2.4GHz applications. Approx

0.36dB loss per Metre for 5GHz applications".

So it rather depends on how farther hut is away from the source.

If any distance I think a better bet is Ethernet with POE supplying power to an Access Point in the hut.

[charles]

so, over half the signal will be lost at 5GHz.

[Fredxx]

If longer than 8.3m or 27ft?

[charles]

It's a made up cable - I assume you intended to use the full length

[Harry Bloomfield Esq]

Believe me - at these frequencies, losses are massive, even with the best quality, perfectly matched coax.

I set up a (legal for me), wifi link using homemade, pole mounted, yagi antennas, and routers over 1/2 mile. The only way it could be made to work, was using short coax links, between router and antenna. Basicly, I had to mount the routers in watertight boxes, on the pole, by the antennas, to overcome the coax losses.

[Harry Bloomfield Esq]

RF properties, which are not that much different to 5Ghz

[Fredxx]

Ok, that was intended as an example of loss per metre. I was thinking you might purchase the cable and make your own up to minimise required length where you fit your own connectors. Not sue how practical that is.

[The Natural Philosopher]

About half the attenuation, typically

[Sam Plusnet]

That would be the most reliable answer, provided that it's possible to make a suitable arrangement for the cable run. Would trenching, in order to bury the cable, involve demolishing a patio etc. etc.

[David]

There is already a white pipe (installed in haste) with a nylon garden string inside it from the Ethernet cupboard to just outside the shed. About 12 years ago. I should have used larger pipe but this was all done in a rush on the last day of the digger hire. The critical part is is the string is still intact enough to draw something more substantial through to in turn pull an Ethernet cable.

Trenching would not work under the rear floor of the house.

I am contemplating digging down to the pipe if the initial pull doesn't work as the crucial part is under the rear of the house.

Which is where the bends are which are most likely to cause problems.

All the result of running out of steam at the end of a major building project and never getting back to it.

Cheers

Dave R

[Theo]

How big is the pipe?

I was just having the same problem (the metal garage door blocks all signal into the garage). I do have a 10mm copper pipe previously used for an oil supply and was wondering...

It's likely too small for copper ethernet, especially the bends, but I could blow fibre through it - it can be about 1mm diameter. On the upstream end I'd use a switch with an SFP port which can take a fibre module - these are easily available used on ebay and not expensive. Turns out there aren't many wifi access points that will take a fibre connection directly (the main ones are for big sites like stadiums and so pricey). But I found the Banana Pi R3 which is a $100 router board running OpenWRT with decent wifi 6 and 2x SFP cages...

Maybe blown fibre would get around your bends?

Normally they blow through bare fibre and terminate that end afterwards. Termination is a PITA and it's easier to use a pre-made termination, but not sure if the fitting would blow through. The ISPs are using single mode fibre which is smaller but more finnicky to terminate, I'd probably try multimode fibre which is easier to work with but fatter - I don't know how well that would blow, would need experimentation.

I should probably just bit the bullet and dig some copper instead, but the blown fibre idea is tempting...

Theo

[Andy Burns]

fibre/copper media converters are cheap on eBay ...

[Theo]

That's true. I was originally looking at SFP converters, which are less common (although do exist). But if the optical transceiver is integrated into the box then it seems there are more options.

Theo

[John R Walliker]

The TP-Link MC220L media converters are cheap and take sfp modules of your choice. There are now some incredibly cheap switches on Ali Express and even Amazon which have one or two SFP+ connectors. As for pulling cables down pipes, I recently pulled a couple of outdoors grade cat5e cables through a buried blue water pipe that was about 50m long. I used a vacuum cleaner to suck a drawstring string down the pipe. I used baler twine as it is cheap, strong and readily available on a farm. All it needs is for the end of the drawstring to be bundled up into a ball about the same diameter as the inside of the pipe. The outdoors grade cable I used has a black polythene sheath which is very slippery. All underground pipes end up with some water in them after a time which helps to lubricate the pull. The job is much easier with two people so that one can feed the cable in without it kinking. John

[Tim Lamb]

May not help you but something I have seen done... A neighbour was involved in trench digging and laying green duct locally. Unsurprisingly, a fair amount of this duct found uses in agriculture: cable duct between existing barns etc. The point for David is that the draw rope was installed later by being attached to the handles of a plastic carrier bag and blown through the duct with a blast of air from the compressor. Ducts probably 75 and 100mm but should scale with a smaller bag:-)

[John R Walliker]

I have sent WiFi over a 15m length of coax, but the cable did need to be quite special. I used Westflex 103 which is 50 ohm, semi-air spaced with a solid 2.6mm inner conductor. The shield is copper tape and braid. Outer diameter is 9mm. The inner conductor does not fit in standard N connectors without fettling, so there are special connectors available for this cable with an extra-large solder cup on the centre pin. Attenuation at 1GHz is specified as 16.8dB/100m which would give an attenuation of about 0.38dB/m at 5GHz. This means that for my run the total loss was nearly 6dB at 5GHz so I was losing three quarters of the power.

It is nearly always better to install an ethernet cable or fibre and locate the access point close to the user. This also has the advantage that one gets the benefit of the multiple antennas giving spacial diversity and fading protection without needing to run multiple coax cables.

John

[David]

White drain pipe about 40mm diameter - from a quick poke around with a tape measure under the stairs.

I hope that it will be big enough but if the string snags and breaks I'm not sure how I could run more of anything through, with a few angled joints and about 6.8 metres under the house and another 2.5 metres under the deck.

So I think it comes down to gentle easing of a stronger cord along from the house end and then using that to pull Ethernet cable through. It either works or it doesn't.

Cheers

Dave R

[SH]

Try feeding through fish tape from one end to the other rather than risk string breaking or losing whatever you had tied to end of string?