Exterior doors

[Nigel Molesworth]

I've been looking for a replacement exterior door. Been to the sheds, nothing took my fancy. Then I went to Magnet Trade and they've got a "Richmond" style door for £35. What's the catch?

[Weatherlawyer]

Well it aught to be a five lever lock at least.

[Lobster]

Nothing, they're very competitive for doors. That is, provided you don't mind timber rather than luvverly uPVC. I bought a Magnet door not long ago and it was fine.

Presumably you'll need to pay for the glass and door furniture on top, though?

David

[Brian G]

Probably dowelled joints instead of through mortice and tenon. if this is the case, you get a weaker construction and you have to be careful how much you cut off the top and bottom rails when fitting.

Possibly inferior quality timber - although it's difficult to ANY good quality timber these days!

May have to pay extra for the glass.

Brian G

[Mary Fisher]

...

Trees not what they used to be?

Mary

[Brian G]

Correct there, its a problem caused by over-foresting of the best timber over many years which has forced up the prices for it and reduced the quality of the remaining stocks - and ergo, it just *leaves* the inferior stuff for the run-of-the mill joinery that we see today.

BTW, that's one of the reasons why many people 'in the know' will use salvaged doors, floorboards, roof timbers windows et-al from demolished buildings of the 19th and early to mid 20th century (especially schools and public buildings). The clients of those days wanted even the most mundane of items made out of 'real' mahogany, teak, English oak, yellow pine, pitch pine etc and the old foresters of yonks ago, seeing a ready and lucrative market, cut down and imported millions of these trees willy-nilly without thought of conservation for the future.

The thoughts of a now very (well relatively) old carpenter :-)

Brian G

[Mary Fisher]

I don't understand that.

There is still plenty of very good timber of all kinds around. It doesn't matter that we have to pay more for it, that applies to most good things and in the long run it's worthwhile.

We've been doing that for fifty years! We don't do it on economic or timber type reasons but on environmental ones. We hate waste.

It also needs to be desperate for us to take things to a metal scrapyard, when we do the owner sometimes offers us things he knows might interest us - for the metal, not the item.

There has been a lot of re-forestation of all species.

Mary possibly even older.

[Brian G]

Mary,

If you know a good joiner near to you, ask him about the quality of timber today. I don't know how much you know about wood, but take it from me the quality has degraded over the years (my own experience from when I became an apprentice in 1964 to date bears that out).

Over foresting has diminished most of the 'true' joinery trees to the state where timber such as Teak has to have a licence now to import it into this country - let alone cut it down. As a result, we are now reduced to using substitutes such as Iroko for Teak or Sapele for Mahogany - both inferior in finish and longevity to the 'true timbers'. This has come about about because our ancestors used trees such as Mahogany for silly things such as railway sleepers during the industrial revolution (I still have a small amount of this in my garage from when Dr Beeching closed the local railway down and they flogged off the sleepers)

Good for what? Grade 1 Joinery or 'stress' graded constructional timber - there isn't a great deal of that around within the price range that would make it economical to use. Hence the reasons why over the years the TDRA (Timber Research and Development Association) have devised the roof truss, sectional timber beams, casement windows along with developing various methods of 'finger jointing' small pieces of rare and high value timbers together to make bigger pieces, the increasing use of plywood, hardboard, chipboards and even the ubiquitous MDF boards have evolved from their research.

Todays joinery timber is classed now at around grade 4 - 6 I believe, and as a result when kiln dried is relativity weaker and can be difficult to 'finish' when compared to the grade 1.

You are I believe in the minority there for 'environmental' reasons. most people I know who do that, usually do it purely for economic reasons or because the stuff is a better quality than can be got today.

It can take over a hundred years for an oak. teak or beech tree to grow to full maturity and suitabe for converting. The timbers they use for re-forestation usually mature within 25 - 50 years and are inferior in relative terms.

That as well may be Mary, but to be that old, the quality has to be there! Grow 'em slow and season 'em slow to last longer and get a better finish in my opinion!! LOL

Brian G

[Nigel Molesworth]

You can't get the wood you know.

[Mary Fisher]

Spouse does what joinery we need, he doesn't have a difficulty finding decent timber - but he is particular. We have a daughter and son in law who are fine cabinet makers, they have no problem finding what they want either. And they often acquire timbers at no cost.You just have to know where to look, as with everything in life.

No, you don't.

So you ARE younger than us:-)

Quite right too.

You see, we prefer native timbers anyway and wouldn't use the best or any other kind of teak for any application. We don't like the look of it. I thought it had gone out of fashion anyway.

That wasn't silly. Damn good use for mahogany in my opinion - it's in the same category as teak!

Super.

For whatever you need.

I did say that you have to pay for good timber.You do for anything which is worthwhile.

And excellent they are, for some applications.

Each to his own. Price shouldn't be a consideration.

And re-forestation has gone on for longer than that, even before the Forestry Commission was developed.

Not always.

Look, the sellers will produce what sells, in other words what people are prepared to buy. If there was more demand for the finest timbers there would be more reason to produce them. Yes of COURSE trees take a long time to grow but there are plenty of suitable mature trees around, as has been shown in emergency circumstances. If people WANT good timber and are prepared to pay for it it's there. Why should prime timber, which has taken more than a lifetime to care for, be sold at the same price as mdf?

In my case it is.

Indeed. And be prepared to pay for that extra time. Are you growing any timbers to use? We have done in our back garden and are now benefiting from it.

Mary