I'm having an extension done which will be a new kitchen, the old one being converted to a dining room. How much should I be getting charged for an electrician to do all the spark stuff? This includes all (MK quality) sockets, lights, extractor fans, power to outbuildings and garden. I know it is very hard to put a figure on it, but will it be =A3500 or =A32500?
Thanks in advance
My mate is a sparky, he reckons on £250 a day for domestic installs, including usual parts like cable and sockets, new distributor boards and RCDs etc are more. Extension with 2 rooms, and associated changes? I'd guess at 3 days work, so £750 is around the right figure I'd say. Be aware though, that many sparkies are not keen on domestic work, especially 'small' jobs such as this, so you may have to firstly find one who'lll do it, then maybe wait a few weeks for him to fit it in. Alan.
Sounds like a fair assessment. I would add to that, don't underestimate the cost of the parts, especially if you are looking at outside power runs etc, there could be another £500 there if you are using top priced accessories.
BTW. Have a look at the Ultimate range at TLC, very nice quality stuff at reasonable prices:
See, that's what's wrong with this country - everyone's too greedy. £250/day = £1250/week and if you work 48 weeks of the year like I have to do, that's £60,000/year.
I'm a telephone engineer earning £21,000 and my wife is an EO in the civil service earning about £24,000 so our combined annual income doesn't even come close, yet we have a nice house, nice car and decent holidays etc.
If we don't earn £250/day, how the hell can we pay out £250/day???
John (donning flame proof coat on way out)
In article , John writes
Yes do that as you haven't that much idea what its like to be self employed..
That 250 a day isn't just his take home pay!, out of that have to come a lot of overheads. Your cost to your employer is more then what you get paid!.
Of course you could go and join him, but I suspect you quite like it where you are for some reason, as does your wife;)....
Thats why people here in Cambridge work for the University and colleges for quite frankly piss poor money, but they do it all the same....
installs,
work,
I don't want to fly the flag too much for the sparkies but what you have forgotten is the this chap has to run a van, pay professional indemnity insurance and professional body membership and pay for keeping his certification up to date. He also doesn't get paid when on holiday, nor when he is sick or training. He will get no pension provison other than that he pays for himself. Nor does he get paid when going out to quote for jobs that don't roost.
If it's so good being a sparkie, why are you a telephone enginer, it's just thicker wires
AWEM
Indeed, but how much do you *earn your company*, not what you take home,, much of which you will never see as it's used to run the company?
Remember the self employed still need to pay for insurance, have to buy and run their own company vehicle, buy / replace tools, pay the accountant etc. - all these things have to get factored into the pw earnings - it's not all 'take home pay' you know!
You save up, or take a loan out!
NOW that IS what's wrong with this country, the "I want it KNOW, I will NOT wait" syndrome...
He's charging you £250.00 a day, not paying himself £250.00 a day. Out of his revenue, he has to pay his business expenses. If he's got premises, there will be rent, rates, insurances and utility bills; even if he runs his business out of his garage, he needs to pay to buy and run a van, pay for training, test gear, accountants, insurances, affiliation to professional bodies. He's also got to build up a working capital so he can take on bigger projects and get more credit at the wholesalers; If he's got any sense, he'll be paying insurance for if he has an accident and can't work.
He doesn't get paid holidays.
If he has a youngster with him, his daily rate will probably include for the wages of the youngster, so you're getting two people for £250 a day, not one.
He very often is not able to charge for every day of a working week. If he is on fixed-price work which overruns due to problems he should have foreseen, then that's his problem, not the customer's. If he has to do warranty work, he doesn't get paid. (If you, as a telephone engineer, do warranty work, you get paid! It's your employer who loses out, not you). If work falls off, he doesn't get paid.
By employed standards, he probably only earns about £30-35k a year.
Adding to what others have already said justifying that daily rate (and incidentally I'm wondering whether that rate includes a mate? ie two guys) of course you can... the point is you don't pay out that much indefinitely, do you?
By your logic, do you really expect everyone you might ever hire to earn less than you do?
David
A bit vague - a basic kitchen install could be nearer £500 especially if no new circuits or making good are needed, but if that outdoor stuff involves new circuits, buried cables, trenching and reinstatement, and in the kitchen you want some nice lights and cooker hood etc then could easily be well over £2500.
And we don't know what state your existing wiring is in - it it isn't up to standard the sparky won't be able to connect to it and may have to split your meter tails and fit a new compliant consumer unit, new earthing and main bonding, etc.
Owain
And certainly not the sort of Pension Provision that Civil Servants get :-)
Andrew
No it isn't.
That is precisely how it should run.
There is nothing wrong with doing things now as opposed to manana.
In that way, one can do something else tomorrow.
If there is a good reason that something should be delayed then that is fair enough. However, if it is simply a case of making people wait because of not being bothered or laziness or "because we've always done it this way" then that is another situation entirely and is not acceptable.
and never mind what other have said - that even includes some of the parts. Also I didn't think 48 solid weeks was normal for that many people (think about bank holidays in addition to annual leave)
This is a very typical statement from someone who has never been self employed or run a business.
The £250 day rate is much, much more than the take home figure. There are lots of overheads that need to be paid for. Then you have to allow for quiet periods, sick leave, holiday time, and a whole load of other things that people in nice safe employment can bury their heads in the sand about.
There is no such thing as "too greedy" provided that that is the motivation to achieve an improved standard of living for those who wish to take risks and do so.
I think that the greedy aspect comes from the other end of the equation than income - meaning expecting to have acceptable and good things cheaply.
Which is not a lot at all considering that it's gross revenue.
With expenditures on what is required to operate the business, the net is probably half of that which is not a great deal at all.
Were you looking for sympathy? I might have some for a telephone engineer because at least there is some amount of value in the work that a telephone engineer does. I have zero sympathy for civil servants because I have not yet come across one who can be described as producing something profitable (in the broadest sense) as opposed to being a cost centre. In the real world, cost centres come under heavy scrutiny. Frankly £24000 for a civil servant's salary is twice any possible contributed value.
You have the ability to do something about your lot by moving into more gainful occupations including running your own business. If you choose not to because it is more cosy where you are then that is your choice, but don't expect to be able to complain about your lot.
Do something about earning more than £250 per day is the short answer to that one.
You dont buy a car every day so you dont have to earn £ 7000 to £ 30000 per day How do you go on holiday? do you limit this to your daily earnings? Its called saving up for things you want
OK,, I think he's got the message now;!.....
doesn't even
holidays etc.
described as
£250/day???I was wondering if the o.p. wanted to come back and add anything to what has been said . . . . .
AWEM
No, not really :o)
I still reckon that £250/day is well OTT though. A mate of mine is a self-employed plasterer who charges £150/day, a CORGI central heating engineer who recently installed a new system for us was charging us £120/day, and a neighbour has just had a new garden wall built for £150/day.
All the people who did those jobs have got all the overheads that everybody has mentioned but seem to be doing OK on far less than £250/day.
John.
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