The bit that travels towards you is the lower part of the loop and that is the one that should be doing the cutting. If the chain jams and tries to rotate the whole thing back towards you, the handguard is supposed to lock the chain thus protecting you from injury. There are *many* fakes on ebay where this safety mechanism just doesn't work.
Undercutting uses the top part of the blade and if you are complete beginner, I wouldn't advise it until you are happy that you are in control.
Yup, that's true for most modern saws
(for the OP, the chain catcher is a metal bracket that entraps the chain just before it vanishes back into the saw near the rear drive sprocket. The idea being that if the chain were to snap and start to pull away from the underside of the bar the catcher would snag it and bring it to a stop before it has a chance to whip around something soft and fleshy while still being driven under power)
That is the better way generally - it pulls the saw away from you, and pulls the dog teeth on the front of the body into the side of the wood. You can then use a pivoting action - pulling on the rear handle to drive the chain through the wood, pivoting on the dog teeth.
You can cut on the "push" side of the chain, but its not so easy when cutting thicker stuff.
The power outputs of a mains electric is comparable with many small petrol saws. In fact the new breed of cordless electrics can pretty much match all but the most powerful petrol ones.
Back handles saws can only safely be used two handed, so they are difficult you use safely off the ground unless say on a scaffold tower, or properly roped and harnessed to the tree. For aerial work most arborists will use the smaller "top handle" saws, which can be used single handed (although even then they are safer with two!).
but the other hand should be holding onto the ladder
All real arborists will be secured by ropes from above and wouldn't be seen dead, anywhere near a ladder. Either literally or metaphorically. You throw a rope between an overhead branch and the trunk and climb up the secured rope, using one or more pairs of ascenders. Ratcheted devices for feet and hands. Then secure yourself on a higher branch on the way up, and repeat as often as necessary.
michael adams
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---------------- bar \ / ---------------- The chain pulls the log up \ / \ <=== against the teeth, and gives / | log | a degree of control. There is \ \ / less tendency to rotate if the / work is pinned against the teeth.
Whereas doing it like this is more dangerous.
---------------- bar \ / ---------------- \ / \ / | log | \ \ / /
There was at one time, a website with a picture of the human body, showing the most and least popular places to inflict injury with a chainsaw. The right side of the body was more affected, suggesting there are more right-handed people in the world. The purpose of assembling pictures like that from the available data, is to keep you aware that a chainsaw is a
*dangerous* tool. The chain is just as sharp on an electric chainsaw.To do horizontal cuts (bring down a portion of a tree trunk), you use the three cut method. But you practices on some 4" logs, making vertical cuts, until you are used to using the chainsaw. Don't start your first project, felling a tree trunk. You want to use the saw, so that the gravity feed oil supply continues to lubricate the bar.
3 --------- --------- 2 \__ remove wedge of wood, defines fall line \__ and do remove the wedge so there \__ 1 is air showing here.You should only use the three-cut method if the trunk is sound. If the trunk is rotten, you could make your first cut... and have the trunk fall on you, or jam the bar.
Professional tree fellers use a team, and three staff operate ropes to pull some of the materials away from the house. *Do not* wrap pull ropes around your hand or your wrist, if you're on the team pulling on those ropes. If you lose control while working a cut, let the rope go before it burns you. I've seen people pulled through the brush by a pull rope. With a big tree, you can be pulled 20 feet by your rope. You don't want that to happen. While using the saw is dangerous, being a drunken fool pulling on the rope is just as dangerous if not done correctly.
Paul
Indeed, hence the need for a top handle saw if working from ladders since its the only way you will have a free hand.
If working from a scaffold tower, or a cherry picker, then you can use a back handled saw since you have both hands free.
However many pros will be properly roped on with an additional safety strap round the main trunk, and so can work safely at height and have both hands free since they are safely supported in their harness.
Well, you can save yourself some time over the first bit on a ladder if you want. ;-)
;-)
No, a 'real climber' would be using a ' Prusik' that they have made themselves (and a cambium saver they had put up there with their throw line if the tree wasn't being taken down). ;-)
Yup, and on the way down chogging, a wire strop / flipline (plus mainline) ...
Cheers, T i m
As an 'amateur' chainsaw user I simply have a rule (for me) that says never try to use it if/when I'm not on the ground.
The main safety thing (as for many power tools) is to be sure you're well balanced and steady on the ground. Falling over and/or dropping tools is the way to get hurt. My worst power tool injury was caused by not keeping an angle grinder firmly gripped, it wasn't that bad but I don't want to repeat it.
Er no. Its much easier for the arborist to put his/her feet through the loops of the foot ascender sometimes called a knee descender as the ratchet is at knee height, at ground level. And just as quick as their upward steps are the size they want rather than being dictated by the distance between the rungs of the ladder.
That's assuming a ladder is a possibility in the first place. With amateur grown trees as are found in people's back gardens, with branches low down maybe. But in all large trees in public places lining roads, in parks etc. all the lower branches will have been removed at an early stage to avoid obstruction and save the council getting sued by people banging their heads. Possibly you hadn't noticed ?
I drilled a hole in a golfball through which I threaded thin cord and threw that up in the tree. I assume that must have been my "throw line". As many ropes as required may be attached to that. Which is something I do use all the time. Throw the ball anyway. Obviously you've been googling but maybe not hard enough. "prusiks" are very basic friction brake devices made by winding rope around the rope. Real climbers would be spending hundreds on decent anodised purple and green ascenders and descenders out of catalogues.
Chogging ? Another technical term ? Is that repeling or absailing? Wire strop, flipline, mainline ? Have you been googling all this stuff ?
Well yes to descend you er use descenders. You also have what I call a safety rope which I do use attached to a harness back and front again running through a friction brake although obviously yourself and google will know the proper names for all this stuff.
michael adams
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In some places, eg Bushey Park, the lower branch "pruning' is done by deer.
>
Indeed. In Richmond Park there are, or at least used to be, old style picket fences, split wood uprights and wire, put around the trees to protect them.
michael adams
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Er yes. You are talking about your fantasy arborist, I'm taking about our daughter who was a trained tree person.
A massive assumption that all arborists use mechanical ascenders and they don't.
See above.
Of course.
'Lifting' ...
Possibly you are making big and uninformed assumptions. After arb college, she worked at several arb Co's, then for herself, now for the local Council involved in the management of their 'Open Spaces'. She's also one of few on their team with all her chainsaw tickets and so still called in when such things are needed and they don't want to / can't get contractors in.
I actually moved her climbing gear bag yesterday and I can assure you there are no mechanical ascenders (or spikes) in there.
What difference would it make lifting a 60' tree from 6' to 8' re initial access into to the tree by ladder?
Yup. Not so nice when it hits you on the head as a traditional 'throw bag' but it would work.
As many ropes ... are you building a web?
'Fetch!'
Oh dear ... ;-(
Well, not really, it's a loop of rope used to make a self locking device to *attach* to the main climbing rope (using a Prusik knot or hitch).
Oh dear. See how silly you now look as you dig yourself deeper with your inexperience and uneducated assumptions? If someone is *just* a tree climber / cutter then yes, they would probably invest in the latest kit. If they only climbed infrequently then they probably wouldn't (as some of this kit is very expensive and you would have to pay to have it checked (LOLER) every few years).
Yup, more Googling for *you*. ;-)
Neither. It's the taking down of the trunk in sections as you climb down.
Nope, see, just because you have to, doesn't man someone involved in the role over many years would.
Her b/f was an Instructor / examiner / NTPC inspector at an Arb college for several years and I have had many interesting / technical conversations with him (along with assisting both of them on tree jobs). Plus it was good to watch all the climbing at the Arb shows and competition climbing events.
Or your Prusik ...
All sounds very complicated. Are you sure you aren't talking about rock climbing?
See, 'officially' you shouldn't climb on your own (now especially) but many do and therefore who is going to manage the safety line?
Some of us who have *actually* been personally involved in it at a professional level will know most the basic terms already of course. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 09:53:51 -0000, "michael adams" snipped-for-privacy@ukonline.co.uk> wrote: <snip>
I think you will find they are more typically called 'Pale / pailing' fences (probably a modern version of a wattle fence).
Picket fences are normally evenly spaced flat wood 'pickets' on an Arris rail of some sort.
Cheers, T i m
<snippage throughout>
So how does she get from the ground 60ft up the branchless trunk of a tree ?
Anything other than a round ball can snag in the branches, and you'd have to be pretty stupid not to notice where the ball actually went.
Who said anything about taking down trees ?
The topic was climbing up them and coming back down.
Or more specifically in this case how your daughter mangages to get from the ground to 60ft up a branchless trunk without the use of ascenders of any kind or spikes.
Have you actually ever used one ? Has your daughter ? At least apart from "training excercises"
If so I'd be interested to know what advantages you found as against using mechanical descenders.
You can just as much damage to yourself falling 30 ft out of a tree as you can falling off a rockface. Didn't your daughter explain all that to you ?
michael adams
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Oh yes so they are, I stand corrected. Paling fencing was pictured on a Google Images page for "picket fencing" on the 9th row down And was actually labelled "paling fencing" ! Silly me.
I know. That's what all the other fences on the picket fencing page on Google images look like. It's nice to see somebody's paying attention anyway.
michael adams
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Plenty still use ladders to access the crown,
It's actually quite unusual to need a throw line (light twine with a bag weighted with lead shot) to access the crown). on a take down spikes and strops is the preferred method on our team (we're a bit long in the tooth with the supervisor being 64 and climber 42, I'm a geriatric brash dragger when needed).
The climber usually uses a doubled rope technique and a positioning device called a zig zag, the supervisor still uses a prussic knot on a doubled rope.
Single rope technique is used by a lot of young climbers but after access they will often use doubled rope for positioning plus a strop for safety.
A single rope tied at the base for access doubles the stress on the anchor point in the tree.
What you describe is the standard doubled rope technique for access but the use of foot and knee ascenders is only needed for single rope technique.
I think you are confusing 'tree' with 'telegraph pole' mate?
So I wonder what they don't sell golf balls with holes drilled though them for weights on throw lines then, and supply a bean bag instead?
No, it should be on the end of your line, now wrapped 5 times round a branch and locked in place.
I did, when I described the descending (keep up).
And do you think they would climb down without chogging the tree down with them? Keep up.
See above. If it was a real tree not telegraph pole, using a throw line or ladder to get into the lower branches then climbing (as in kids tree climbing).
What do you think? No, belay that, you don't 'think' do you, you just assume and guess and build up a (bogus) picture in your own (closed) mind. ;-(
See above. What part of being trained at an Arb College and working for several arb Co's (where she was often the climber) did you miss?
Convenience and cost. You can make a Prusik loop yourself if you need / want to.
Of course? And? How many people need to climb rock faces regularly for their jobs, other than mountain rescue / RSPB etc and have you never heard or free climbing?
When climbing a tree for your job 'of course' you would clip yourself in a regular intervals but there could be times when you are say descending out of a tree you may have thinned, shaped, pollarded or done crownwork on, where you are descending from the lower limbs just on your one climbing line.
Didn't need to mate, a fear of heights and loud noises are built into most people so don't need 'explaining'.
The difference between you and I are that I've been involved in all this from a professional POV and you haven't. ;-(
Please stop digging.
Cheers, T i m
In the parks around here we have proper trees. 200 and more year old cedars planted by posh people. Not stuff planted in the 1950's
As you said its tradition innit ?
They didn't have golf balls 200 years ago did they ?
Think about it.
Your recommendation for the tradional lead filed throwing bag was that it wouldn't hurt you if it hit you on the head. But the only reason the trowing bag wouldn't similarly wrap itself 5 times around a branch would be if it was that much heavier than a golf ball.
But it wouldn't hurt as much if it hit you on the head, Stun you perhaps but nothing serious.
...
How can you descend a tree that isn't there ?
There *are* no lower branches. How many more times ?
Try Google images for "tall trees".
You're not very good at answering direct questions are you ?
I've notices that before.
But why would anyone want to ? Cost ? Basically if you can't afford to invest in a decent bit of kit maybe you shouldnt be doing it in te first place. Same with ropes. Have you seen the cost of decent rope nowadays ?
What has anything got to do with your claim that my choosing to wear a harness when climbing trees was "very complicated"
What "job". People only fall out of trees when its their "job" ?
So how does she get from the ground 60ft up the branchless trunk of a tree ?
Why not just answer the question from a professional POV ?
I mean I've seen blokes who I assumes to be "professional" do it on some really tall trees around here, and I'm just wondering how your daughter manages it.
michael adams
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