Earthing through plastic pipe

There was an ancient (1950s) steel pipe bringing mains water into my house under the front room and then up in the cup'd under the stairs. There there was a stop cock and it went into copper pipe and onto the copper a large sleeved earth wire was connected with a tag on saying "Do Not Remove".
The steel pipe was leaking so I have taken it all out and replaced with blue plastic pipe. Was looking at the earth arrangement and wondering if I need to earth the wiring in another way, into the ground or something, or are we still earthed through the water in the plastic pipe out to the outside world?
TW
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thursday, 13 February 2020 21:59:54 UTC, TimW wrote:

Water is NOT an adequate earth. An old electrical install with no earth is not safe.
NT
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 13/02/2020 22:24, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

So what would be an adequate earth? TW
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thursday, 13 February 2020 22:35:57 UTC, TimW wrote:

Do

h
if

g,

he

is not safe.

It depends on your install. Maybe an earth rod plus RCDs/RCBOs on all circu its. If your install uses the waterpipe as the main earth - which we can't be sure of at this point - it may have no RCD protection. Recommend posting a clear pic of the fusebox on here, plus the supplier's incomer.
As has been said it's also possible it's a modern install and the connectio n is just an equipotential bond. We don't know yet. The seriousness of havi ng no earth and an old fusebox means show us pics without delay. Yes there may be earthing elsewhere too.
NT
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 13/02/2020 22:35, TimW wrote:

Earth rod and required RCD measures if you are a TT installation.
But are you maybe a TN-C-S or TN-S (supplier provided earth) and this clamp was merely equipotential bonding?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 14/02/2020 11:06, Tim Watts wrote:

Going to add - if you can't work it out, best call a local sparky around asap to check it out. The worst case scenario as others have mentioned is a very dangerous installation.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 14/02/2020 11:10, Tim Watts wrote:

Although *if* it is a reasonably recent installation, the supplier's main fuse or switch may bear the magic letters "PME".
That said, mine did when I moved in, but the earth was not in fact connected to the neutral, but to a fairly feeble looking earth rod right by the front door.
As someone else suggested, a photo of the fuse box and surrounds would let us advise better.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 14/02/2020 15:44, newshound wrote:

Indeed the sticker alone is not solid evidence that the install is actually using the PME earth.
My cutout has the PME sticker, but it would seem that the upgrade to a PME capable supply occurred after the house was previously re-wired.
Hence the installation is TT (as would be typical for many rural properties with overhead supplies).
--
Cheers,

John.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 14/02/2020 16:09, John Rumm wrote:

Good point. IIRC my overhead supply was replaced with an underground one soon after I moved in (31 years ago).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 13/02/2020 22:24, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

and because the pipework is earthed - that doesn't mean that the incoming main is THE earth for the house, does it?
TW
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 13/02/2020 22:24, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Was it used as the earth or just a bonding point?
--
mailto : news admac myzen co uk

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I've often wondered what they do these days as people tell me you can see the plastic pipes coming up for the services in new builds. Maybe they all have some kind of local Earth spike or are they all joined together these days and earthed at intervals down the road? Interesting. Brian
--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 14/02/2020 08:49, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:

Typically the earth will be provided by the electrical supplier, using their combined Protective Earth and Neutral conductor. Thus giving the consumer a TN-C-S / PME earthing system.
If the pipework in the house is metal, then it still need equipotential bonding since its capable of introducing a voltage into an equipotential zone from elsewhere in the house even if it can't do it from external to the property due to the plastic services.
If the pipework in the property is all[1] the plastic, then the pipework will not be included in the equipotential bonding.
[1] No need for EQ bonding in cases where the pipework is all plastic but with only "show work" in copper.
--
Cheers,

John.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It's not the water which provides the earth. It's the metal pipe in contact with the ground over a long distance.
--
*If God had wanted me to touch my toes, he would have put them on my knees

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 13/02/2020 21:59, TimW wrote:

Depends :)
That may have been just bonding of the incoming metal water pipe. If so there may be no need for it *if* you've now got all plastic. If not best to attach the wire to where copper water pipe starts again to maintain equipotential bonding. See
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Earthing_and_Bonding#Main_Bonding
OTOH it may be - if it's an old house - the water pipe was part of (or even all of!) the earthing for all your wiring. If so you may need something to take its place - and PDQ if it was all you had.
Best place to start is what sort of earthing you have
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Earthing_Types
If you aren't sure post links to some pictures.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 13/02/2020 21:59, TimW wrote:

You have several possibilities here, ranging from mostly all ok, not much to worry about, to, you now have seriously defective electrical installation that will be a potential danger to life.
Needless to say, working out which is the first priority. :-)
The links Robin posted should help you identify the type of earthing system you have. If it turns out to be one of the TN variants, then you have not much to worry about. If its TT and the rising main was your main earth connection, you need to take some immediate steps to make it safe.
--
Cheers,

John.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
No you are not earthed by the water, not in my experience at any rate. Brian
--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It was common many many years ago to provide the earth via the water pipe. Not so today. Get your leccy board in to sort it out.
--
*Until I was thirteen, I thought my name was SHUT UP .

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Friday, 14 February 2020 11:08:57 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's nothing to do with the leccy board.
NT
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 15/02/2020 08:35, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Meanwhile what might help Tim is to know that the relevant function of "Electricity Boards" was transferred as part of the privatisation of the industry to distribution network operators (DNOs). As John has already pointed out they can and do deal with earthing - although they may charge (and will require main bonding to be up to current requirements before they supply PME).
https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/earthing
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.