drain levels - quite interesting

[emma_middlebrook]

Hi

Been thinking about my drain levels quite alot recently mainly because they seem quite high.

I have one outside the kitchen - the water is about 9 inches from the top.

About 4 feet below that, in an area dug out in front of a basement bedroom window, I have another. The water level is about 4 inches below the top.

Another 4 feet below that, at basement floor level and at the front of the house, there's another with the water only about 3 inches from overflowing.

How is the whole thing balanced like this? Are these levels, especially the last level (3 inches), far too high - I'm worried that they seem very close to the top and could spill over.

This concern may have its roots in the fact that I have a huge manhole cover in my bathroom in the basement: I've just had a look in and I wouldn't like that to overflow!

Anyone able to put my mind at rest about the levels or is there any action I should take?

Thanks,

Emma

[Dave Fawthrop]

|Hi | |Been thinking about my drain levels quite alot recently mainly because |they seem quite high. | |I have one outside the kitchen - the water is about 9 inches from the |top. | |About 4 feet below that, in an area dug out in front of a basement |bedroom window, I have another. The water level is about 4 inches below |the top. | |Another 4 feet below that, at basement floor level and at the front of |the house, there's another with the water only about 3 inches from |overflowing. | |How is the whole thing balanced like this? Are these levels, especially |the last level (3 inches), far too high - I'm worried that they seem |very close to the top and could spill over. | |This concern may have its roots in the fact that I have a huge manhole |cover in my bathroom in the basement: I've just had a look in and I |wouldn't like that to overflow! | |Anyone able to put my mind at rest about the levels or is there any |action I should take?

First buy a set of rods from B&Q and rod everything out you can find. Find out where the downstream, from your house, man hole covers are, and rod back to your house, hopefully they are not full.

Otherwise get them seen to before the winter

***DO*** ***NOT*** leave the problem until it becomes urgent. There are a lot of sharks who do drains. Ask all your mates for a recommendation for a company who will do a good job at a fair price.

[Chris Bacon]

They aren't "balanced". They're probably trapped gullies which drain to a common level somewhere[1].

[1] probably here. If you get the manhole cover off, and run a hose into each "drain", you'll be able to see what happens.

It would be unfortunate if the manhole cover was blown off. I assume it's a screwed-on one.

How do you find the "fastmail" service, BTW?

[Roger Mills]

What sort of 'drains' are you talking about? Are these 9" (or so) square grills into which the wastes from the kitchen sink, and washbasins, etc. feed? If so, each will be a gulley, with a trap, designed to hold some water to prevent the smells from the sewer from escaping - in exactly the same way as the U-bend under your kitchen sink - or, for that matter - the U-bend in a toilet, works. Just as the level of water in a toilet is totally unrelated to the level in the sewer into which it feeds, the level in these gulleys doesn't matter. If you pour some water into one, an equal quantity will flow out of the back into the sewer - and the level will stay the same.

[Stuart Noble]

If this isn't the case, and there's a blockage somewhere, get on to your local water authority. In a house of that age (didn't you say 1820 in another thread?), it's almost certainly their responsibility and I think they're duty bound to come out within 4 hours or so for free. Worth bearing in mind for the future anyway. So many people with shared drains in older houses grab yellow pages in panic when they don't need to. On the odd occasion that it's technically your problem, they usually fix it anyway.

[emma_middlebrook]

Ah, I get it now. That's very good to know. No need to worry about the levels then. You're right, they are both trapped gullies - phew!

I'm going to try that once I've properly declogged both of the gully traps which are still a bit full of soil and leaves.

No, it's not - that would mean someone actually bothered looking after the place! It's old and rusty and the 'frame' on which it sits is old and rusty too - so rusty that bits are breaking off. It needs to be replaced.

My current knowledge is that I can get one that's recessed so it can have tiles placed on top and 'double sealed' to keep the smell out but, of course, that means that the frame and its surroundings will have to be repaired too.

Incidentally, how would it get blown off? Also, is there a particular name for people who could prepare the hold, add a frame etc?

Very 'clean' and simple compared with how I remember the others but probably not as sophisticated as gmail.

Cheers!

Emma

[emma_middlebrook]

Yep, am going drain/sink unblocking crazy. Going to get a set of stuff. Definitely cheaper than even the minimum call out and it doesn't seem particular difficult work to get right.

The only man hole cover on the property (including back garden, front yard is the one in the bathroom) - when you say downstream man hole covers do you mean something that might be in the street or one of the neighbouring properties' grounds. If the former, would I need permission to go lifting it up? I'll definitely find out where the next 'link in the chain' is though.

Getting there and thanks ...

Emma

[emma_middlebrook]

Smaller circular ones - two to drain rain water away, and another for sink/washing-machine water from mine and the flat above. I'm now totally convinced they are gulleys so am not worried at all about the water level.

Cheers though, I finally got it!

Emma

[emma_middlebrook]

Yep, 1820s. I will check with them about the drains - thanks for the tip.

What I'd really like to do is find out if what I can see in the inspection chamber is just for this house and where it goes! I wonder if you can view plans of the drain system - sounds a bit weird but might be quite interesting.

Emma

[Chris Bacon]

You could use a "wet" vacuum, or just put your hand down and scoop out silt, etc. Unless it's completely clogged after the gully that will be where the obstruction is. Probe carefully just in case of glass (or wear gloves).

[Chris Bacon]

Due to the pipe getting blocked "downstream". If it's just taking rainwater, not too bad, except for flooding. N.B. it could be worse.

A general builder, or a thing called a "DIYer"!

I quite like it... are there simpler free mail accounts? I want one for a relative, not in the first flush of youth, who (I think) finds "fastmail" complicated!

[Harry Bloomfield]

emma [e-mail] submitted this idea :

Are you talking about the water levels in manholes or in the drains with metal grids covering them?

The manholes are not meant to store any water, it is meant to flow straight through them.... Whereas the latter type have a U bend at the bottom intended trap a small amount of water to block the escape of smells. Could it be this water in the traps which you can see?

[Harry Bloomfield]

on 19/05/2006, emma [e-mail] supposed :

I have just replaced two pressed steel ones in the drive, not a major operation by any means. The frames had rusted to the point where one cover was no longer being held at the side and had deformed.

All you do is buy a new one complete with frame, designed to seal airtight recessed to take whatever tiles you intend fitting and of adequate strength for whatever traffic you can expect to go over it. Add a bag of ready mixed mortar.

You then dig out whatever mortar there is from around the old frame big enough (and a little more) to allow the new frame to sit in. Don't let any of the old mortar go down the manhole, use a piece of board to collect it. Clean out all of the dust and debris, plus hose the surround down to get a good key.

Mix the mortar, spread plenty of depth around where the frame is to fit, then gently push it into it, whilst scrapping up the mortar which squeezes out until you get it down to the correct level with the floor (allowing for the cover).

Then just fill in any gaps and smooth it all off. Again make sure none of the mortar falls in to the drain. Now just lower the cover on and leave it for a couple of days before finally sealing it. Avoid putting any weight on it until after those first two days.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Are these open type gullies with TRAPS?

If so, thats the way they are supposed to be.

OTOH if you have been lifting manholes and finding the inspection chambers full, you are, or will be soon, in deep shit..;-)