Decent crimps require the correct tool. Soldering mains wires needs a soldering iron larger than a normal electronic type. Probably 50 watts or so. Soldering pipes is actually easier with a decent blowlamp - no insulation to melt.
The correct way to solder using multicore is to apply the heat first then the solder. Not bring the part to be soldered to already melted solder. That way ensures a poor joint.
A properly done crimp is very difficult to pull apart by hand. Soldering is fine, but tends to be harder to deploy in practical situations. The solder itself can't be relied on for mechanical strength, so you need to twist wires carefully. You then need to mess about with a hot iron etc in possibly confined spaces. Plus wait the warm up and cool down times etc. A crimp it easier to get into place where you are having to work partly by feel with obstructed sight etc, and no risk of melting our fingers.
Not a good soldering technique though... The joint should be heated, and the flux cored wire then applied to the joint once up to temperature. Allow solder to flow into joint, remove solder wire, remove heat, allow to cool. Having pools of molten solder sat on a hot plate will normally cause the flux to boil off - giveing rise to poor joints.
I said solderability *test*. This would be modified with various fluxes, cleaning methods, types of solder etc,
Anyway, absolutely not the way to get a good joint is to heat first. You must first wet/tin the soldering iron and solder it, so that the wire heats up much more evenly and easily in a pool of solder than just on a bare heating element.
You will know that a common way to solder circuit boards is (or was: I may be out of date) a wave solder bath. No question of applying any more heat than necessary to the components
S
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As above. Flux is only really necessary if you haven't cleaned your parts properly (and a drop of zinc chloride will help almost anything - but not good practice if you can help it).
I can only suggest you try it if you don't believe me. Hold your iron flat side up. Wet it with a bead of solder. When solder is clear and shiny, dip end of wire in flux and immediately in to bead of solder. It tins instantly. When you've tinned both pieces of wire, hold them together and either lower into bead or bring bead up to them held in suitable clamp. If it stays shiny, it's done, and you won't get it apart in a hurry.
You may get away with holding plain wires onto hot surfaces to warm them up, (even then they may turn black before your solder melts) but with more delicate components you may well overheat the component before the wire gets hot enough to melt your solder strand on. You melt the solder on the iron: not the component.
S
Nonsense. ;-) Before soldering anything you must be sure it is clean. And apply heat first before tinning. But for most purposes tinning separately isn't required. But if you are going to tin something it is important you get a good reaction between the metal and solder which means getting the flux to the joint at the same time as the solder.
And soldering failures are pretty common there. What is a production technique has little relevance to DIY. And who said anything about using more heat than was necessary?
More nonsense. Flux is always required. It prevents oxide forming when things are heated. You cannot solder properly without it. There are different types, though.
I hope you've never needed to solder anything important. Because you're just plain wrong.
Indeed. One may get away with that for very small items, but for anything larger it simply wont work.
Flux is always necessary: mostly people don't realise how little is required though.
There is so much cored solder that it will still be present on the bubbling tip of the iron. Which is why the above technique can work.
No: it strips way the oxide layer that forms INSTANTLY on any copper or aluminium when exposed to the air.
You cannot solder properly without it. There are
Correct. Aluminium flux is particularly unpleasant stuff.
You really need to learn how to solder. Lots of guides on the net - but this one should help you:-
It's one of the fundamentals of good soldering.
Whatever.
No one in their right mind solders aluminium. There are better and easier ways to do the same sort of joint.
You might get a joint that sort of holds together, but is a sure way to have problems in short order with electronics.
I beg to disagree.
I have had to solder it to make connections to raw Lithium polymer cells.
And how else can you earth your 'tinfoil' hat ;-)
It solders remarkably well with the right flux.
But the fumes are appalling.
Its way more reliable than any mechanical connection.
Totally agree, Dave. Just pointing out why it could work.
Well apologies to an otherwise very informed bunch of people, but like I said, don't knock it till you have tried it.
I say yet again the solderability TESTS are to determine how easy it is to solder with given delivery samples of wire, or solder, or flux, and this is the way they were tested at Standard Telephones & Cables, where I worked in the lab. I don't know if this was standard in other companies but that was just one of the quality control procedures at STC.
For regular soldering purposes flux is advised, and I prefer a pot of the stuff that looks like grease and this has lasted many years.
By far the quickest way of heating anything is to immerse it in a hot metal: not rest it on one side of a heated surface with air all around. That way you *will* get oxide forming on the metal you have just wasted your time cleaning. If you apply your flux to the cleaned metal and then immerse it directly in the solder you get an instant good shiny tin or join, with no opportunity for oxide formation. Also, for larger joins where there isn't enough liquid solder on the iron, for instant coverage, extra solder melts much more easily when applied to the already melted pool than it does on any bare metal. I don't see how, if you have done any soldering, you could have failed to notice this. If you apply cold solder to a thin film of just melted solder on the work piece you are likely to solidify it before it has had a chance to flow out and you wind up with a dull dodgy joint that has to be redone. I have repaired many such joints in circuit boards and the easiest way to melt the old solder is with a blob of newly melted solder on the tip of the iron. (This is also the easiest method to melt the old solder when you want to remove a component, and have a desoldering sucker at the ready in your other hand.)
Aluminium solder can work well - and it was being developed at STC when I was there, and they were quite proud of it. I haven't had any desire to use it since, as it really is rather a specialist technique. Despite developing the aluminium solder, the preferred method of attaching the central vibrator pin to the aluminium diaphragm in the old rocking armature phones, was a type of hot cure Loctite glue... (Which I also had to measure - and very boring and fumy it was.)
Fluxes can be pretty dangerous, and all the soldering stations were equipped with fume extraction. Breathe them in at your own risk.
Anyhow, I did not come here to argue. Try it yourselves: or not. I know what works in my experience.
S
My comment was intended to focus on the overall nett benefit of using properly made crimps for wire jointing applications "in the field". My only comment on your test methodology was that it was not a good general purpose technique to use for wire jointing. I presume from this comment:
That we are broadly in agreement.
Perhaps I misconstrued the thrust of your post, and thought you were recommending your test technique[1] as a suitable in the field jointing technique.
[1] I have no doubt it works as you describe, and would allow comparisons between allow variations etc. However I standby my comment that as a general wire soldering technique its not optimal!
Testing new products hasn't really anything to do with DIY soldering of electric or electronic wiring.
Everyone uses multi-core these days for the above use. It is probably more expensive than plain solder and separate flux, but for the quantities involved not an issue.
Totally impractible for jointing wires. Or DIY electronics.
You didn't mentioned the necessity of flux before. Quite the reverse.
You heat the wires with the iron before applying the solder. Using a suitably powerful iron, clean and tinned. It looks like you've been trying to solder with one either too small or not allowed to heat properly.
A clean properly tinned iron will melt any such joint. But it must be cleaned with a damp sponge just before applying it. Not the same need when making new joints as the fresh solder will keep the tip tinned and clean. If there is crud on an old joint you wish to work on best to remove that first.
There are brazing alloys for ally which are easier to use and far stronger than solder - as strong as the allumimium itself. And don't need dangerous fluxes.
You had fume extraction, but not a desolder station? However, the fumes from multi-core solder are pretty low risk. Aggressive types are different
- but have no place in electronic or electrical work. Stick to multi-core.
Carrying the solder to the work on the iron is a sure way of producing a poor connection. Every single textbook in the world will tell you that. Perhaps you never watched a wireman at work?
As I said to start with - though I'm beginning to wish I hadn't - no problem at all, and I do it that way because that is how I get the best results. And, as I also said: I would be unlikely to be extending wires in any case, but would just put in a longer piece, as wire is cheap.
In the context of this thread, ie jointing mains wiring where it is inaccessible, so only crimping or soldering conforms to regs, just how would you immerse them in a solder pot or whatever? Fine on the workbench for some things I suppose, but totally impractical on site as it were.
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