Council tax valuations

[Alan]

In message , Furby wrote

I'm still awaiting the refund of the Poll Tax levy that was charged to lower taxation areas to help out the higher spending Tory councils.

The local taxation system is very wrong! Local taxation should not be based on the ability to pay or the size of the house - it should be based on what you use. On average, a house with single adult is going to use less of the council's resources than a household with two adults who in turn are going to use less than a household with two adults and 2.5 kids.

A fair system would be to tax the whole population, including children, the same amount per person.

[Alan]

In message , Broadback wrote

If the council can raise twice as much from the revaluation process central government can reduce the amount they pay by the same amount. It is only revenue neutral for the council.

Furthermore, if certain 'groups' have been promised smaller bills who will have to make up the shortfall?

What annoys me is the vast amounts of money some councils waste. At a cost of millions, Southend-on-Sea High Street was resurfaced in expensive cobbles in artistic patterns. The unfriendly surface for anyone with a disability and for anyone who is pushing children in a buggy didn't last long. Transco dug it all up a few weeks later. It was a planned activity to replace the main gas pipes that the council knew about _before_ starting the refurbishment!

I walked down this recently refurbished street yesterday. The clock commissioned for a vast sum of money to celebrated the turn of the century was broken again, the cobbled surface resembled some off road course suited to 4x4s rather than pedestrians and all the trendy 'floor lights' were full of water. Money well spent :(

[Mary Fisher]

There hasn't been a Poll Tax since mediaeval times ...

I agree. A poll taxc.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

What have you done about it?

Mary

[Huge]

[23 lines snipped]

That was tried already, and look what happened then.

[Dave]

Gordon. Alister (sp). ????

Or his puppet masters in Brussels?

Or his mater puppet master in the White house?

Or are you talking about queen Blair (chose the sex as appropriate)

Dave

[Mark Spice]

I'm not sure where this idea comes from. In my experience CT is much higher in the North than the South. Speaking to my parents yesterday they are due to pay £1400 for a band E property in Kent compared to £1200 for my band C property in Sheffield. That being said I know that a large part of local government finance comes from Westminster according to formulae set by the government of the day. (*)

I had always assumed that each council, roughly, needs a similar amount of cash per capita. I believe that the CT is set on band D properties and raised, or lowered, by about 11% for each band above or below this. Where properties values tend to be higher the initial rate can be relatively low as there will be more E's, F's & G's. However where property values are low the converse applies. This may be a complete load of old monkey futtocks but it seems to make a bit of sense to me. (**)

Cheers

Mark

(*) CYNIC MODE ON... The formula being to send more money to those councils of the same hue as the sitting government

(**) Although if it makes sense to me it is almost definitely wrong.

[Dave]

I am sure the same thing happened in my neck of the woods. The main shopping street (for Chorley read a few shops and a lot of charity shops in such a small area you would not believe) had the main street paved with these fantastic blocks, where you are never sure which way your foot will fall. I sometimes think that I have had too much to drink, when I walk over them, even though I am stone cold sober in the morning.

I digress. Part of the street was dug up to make changes to the drainage system. Did they re-lay the original blocks? (they had a pattern to them as yours did) No! They commissioned new blocks and laid them after the drains were re-fitted.

Total job time so far has been 4 months.

Dave

[Mary Fisher]

Beautifully put.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

Has anyone ever challenged this and insisted on an explanation?

Mary

[Chris Bacon]

Children weren't included. I thought it was a good system - I disliked it the first year, went from paying £0 to £410-ish, then it went *down* to £250-ish, which I thought was quite reasonable. I don't know why it was disliked. Bring it back!

[Mary Fisher]

That's why the Labour Party got it wrong when they called it a Poll Tax.

Hear hear!

Mary

[Peter Crosland]

I agree! However, the real problem was the ease with which it was possible to avoid it. It is much easier to tax property rather than people.

Peter Crosland

[Owain]

That's because it was an inefficient local authority based collection system. Some local authorities are chronically inefficient in collecting council tax too.

Collecting poll tax through the (a) Inland Revenue (b) Benefits Agency, deducted at source (c) Passports Agency, requiring a certificate of current contributions to be submitted with passport applications (d) Education Authority, ditto certificate every term for every child in the school (e) Criminal Justice, ditto certificate every time a person is brought before the court for any other offence (f) Road Tax, ditto certificate by the keeper of any motor vehicle to be shown when renewing road tax at the PO ...

And I haven't even mentioned Entitlement^WIdentity cards :-)

Owain

[Mary Fisher]

It wasn't a poll tax ...

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

Found this:

Oliver won't fight PM in general election Prior to Tony Blair's U-turn on extra funding for school dinners, campaigning chef Jamie Oliver had planned to stand against the prime minister in his Sedgefield constituency on a "school meals ticket". Following the promise of more money for school dinners, the chef has withdrawn the plan. - Mail on Sunday, 3 April

Now dear old Jamie hasn't been put under any pressure, has he?

Mary

[Dave]

Not yet, but I am inclined to do just that and ask why the council does not take part in its own green recycling scheme.

My wife works for them and tells me that they do not recycle a thing at our council buildings...

Dave

[Mary Fisher]

Point out that OGL has set targets. Or was it Brussels ... or Kyoto... Anyway, councils have to meet certain levels by some time.

Wish I hadn't started this reply ...

Mary

[Brian Sharrock]

Back in those days ... we had a Parliament wherein genuine debate occurred and Bills were scrutinised line-by-line with Divisions occurring at any hour of the day ... it's all been 'modernised' to become 'family-friendly' and MPs don't have be subjected to the tedium of listening to nor attending debates - they can vote on Bills, conveniently once a week - so, during the passage of the 'Community Charge' Bill the (then) Labour Opposition obtained a requirement that _seperate_ registers would be maintained for the 'Poll Tax" which could _not_ be used for any other purpose.

All of Owain's suggestions were _specifically and explicitly_ enacted as unlawful thanks to the Labour Opposition.

BTW; the Labour Opposition insisted that 'Lottery' money could not be used in lieu of Government money.

Have you heard about the 'School Food Foundation'?

[Geoffrey]

What was the date of that report?